BEST WEBCOMIC OF 2002

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 4:07 pm

i'm not sure HOW my friend omar found this (it's not updated on patrick's site as far as i can see), but patrick farley's newest webcomic DELTA THRIVES is FINALLY UP! for those of you that attended the san diego comicon last year, you got a sneak peek at this. for those of you that haven't, you're in for a phenomenal treat! this has got to be the best webcomic of the year, bar none!!!

it's a pretty hefty page once you get past the cover, so you might wanna take a break and let it load up. haven't tried it from home and my 56k modem, but it took a while here at work and i have a T1 here. so...

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:39 pm

Yeah, I'm loading it over a 56k and it is going slowly but- wow- does it ever look pretty!

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:01 pm

I've read it- I like it.

On my modem, I had to reload the page a couple times in order for all of the images to finally appear- a side-effect of having well over 100 images on one page when download time is an issue- and I set my monitor's resolution to 800x600 for viewing it. I then hit F11 to bring the browser to full-screen mode and this, I think, it the optimal viewing style- no extra screen space wasted, just pretty pictures.

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 10:13 am

I dont want to be a critic of this comic, I think it is awesome. But I have issues calling this the 'best' web comic. Reason: file size.

Shouldn't a piece of art (comic, film, painting, etc.) accommodate the medium if is designed for? If a print comic were distributed on a sheet of paper that was 20 feet wide by 50 feet tall, that would put a practical barrier of entry to reading, distributing, reproducing, enjoying the work. If Picasso had painted his greatest masterpiece on the inside of a parachute, and the only way to enjoy the art is to go up in an airplane and jump, putting an effective barrier of entry on enjoying the art, would it still be his greatest masterpiece?

In the case of this comic, there is a 4mb download to enjoying it. It has already been noted that even on really fast connections this is a tedious slow download. It would not surprise me at all if this comic could not be read on slower connections or slightly obsolete equipment. In other words, it is not optimized for the medium it is presented in and there is a barrier to viewing and enjoying it.

FWIW, I think the comic is very well done, beautiful to behold, imaginative, and technically good. It does take good advantage of the medium in a lot of ways. (Interactive dropdown elements, animation) I think it is the infinite canvas used here that both contributes to it?s quality, and contributes to it?s shortcomings. If the comic had been chopped up into more easily downloaded parts would that help by making it more accessible or hurt it by breaking the infinite canvas?

Okay, I am starting to get rhetorical here. But my point is: this is a damn good comic, but I can?t call this the ?best webcomic? because it has a serious fatal flaw.

Alien

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 2:05 pm

the "serious flaw" of the download time is a moot point. farley is pushing the boundaries of this infant medium beyond the limitations of its current state. ten years from now, it will download in no time and far surpass ANYTHING else contemporary to it. and which is more important: catering to the medium the way it is, remaining status quo, or creating a work of art that is visionary. for my money, i'll go with innovation over just another daily "webstrip". farley is one of our geniuses! you better recognize.

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 10:18 pm

You make a good point.
I have no retort.

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 11:25 pm

hey now, don't make is so easy on me!

yeah, bandwidth is STILL a big problem, i totally agree with you. i'm a little spoiled with my T1 connection at work, but when i get home trying to download this comic on my 56k is a BIG chore. i tried to show it to a friend of mine recently and it took FOREVER! but DELTA's still worth the wait...

and, hey, 2002 is FAR from over, right? maybe one of us can give patrick a run for his money! here's to trying, anyway.

Fortunato · Post by **Fortunato** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 11:35 pm

You know, it strikes me as a little unfair to criticize it for being a slow download. Alien, I think you're right in that a work of art should fit the medium it is created for, but I think you're wrong in saying that this doesn't. Merely because it is big is no reason to driticize it. you can do as I'm going to do and download the whole thing while I'm off doing something else. Then, when it finishes, I can come back and read it at my leasure and my own pace. Right? But I won't deny that there is some justice in your point. He probably should have chopped it up a little. but I'm not complaining.

Rip Tanion · Post by **Rip Tanion** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 11:46 pm

I'm on a 56k dial-up connection and this just took forever to load. Downloading the comic 'Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun' took longer than downloading the 256kps MP3 of the Pink Floyd song of the same name (and I'm talking an extended live version). I also had the same problem Greg had, with missing images. I had to increase the size of my browser cache in order to get them all (something a lot of less computer-savy wouldn't know to do). Also, when I chose a selection in the drop-down selector boxes, I kept getting a java script error.

I have to agree with Alien, as well. What's the use of having an innovative web comic, if most people aren't going to have the patience to wait for it to completely download, and have to continually refresh to get it to all load? They'll probably give up after a minute and go elsewhere. It's like throwing a great party, and only a few people actually show up. I think this comic would have been better served if it had been split into a few different pages. To say it won't matter in ten years is ridiculous, because NOW is what matters to most of the audience.

As for Farley, he's got a lot of good ideas, but I find some of his stories a bit too pretentious and left wing for my tastes. Quite frankly, I liked the more "simple" stuff he's done, like 'Jeremiah' and 'Rush Limbaugh Eats Everything', better. That's not to say I didn't like this one, it was actually pretty good. But I don't know if I'd elevate it up to the category that Catgarza has.

And somebody give that girl an eyebrow waxing. Yeesh, she's got thicker ones than me, and mine are as bushy as Breshnev's. However, as a huge Led Zeppelin fan, I appreciated the quote from 'Kashmir'. And as a Windsor McKay fan, I like that the cat was name Little Nemo.

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:41 am

I love Delta Thrives, but I don't see any harm in noting the problems with bandwidth. Patrick himself warned us that it was absolutely huge and should probably only be viewed under certain conditions, he just didn't see any way around it except to prepare a much smaller alternate version, which he's in the process of doing.

We should note that this was a beta version, linked to from the e-sheep mailing list and wasn't actually meant for public consumption yet. Keep an eye on e-sheep for the official launch. (as it happens, Patrick jumped in the car right after uploading Delta to drive from SF to LA for my surprise B-Day party on Friday, so he hasn't been able to make any changes yet!)

Fortunato · Post by **Fortunato** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:14 am

I'll try upping the cache size. Maybe that'll help. just noticed your post rip.

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:23 am

sorry patrick

think i may have jumped the gun a bit. i've been waiting for this thing for a LONG TIME! i thought he had my email, so i was surprised when a friend sent me an email. i went over to patrick's site and noticed he hadn't announced it yet so i thought he had been too busy to announce it yet and jumped the gun...

jeez, is my face red

Kevin Pease · Post by **Kevin Pease** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:18 am

It's very shiny and beautiful, a technical tour de force, but I feel the content of this one merely has pretensions of depth. He builds an interesting world worth exploring and then makes it almost entirely incidental to what happens. Of his "woman suddenly becomes orgasmically one with everything and glimpses the unfathomable truth of the universe" oeuvre, I think I much prefer Shapeshifter, the one with the coffee, both for storytelling and actual meaningfulness.

Still, one can't fault the visual aspects of Delta Thrives, and I think it's one of the few "infinite canvas" efforts that really makes the inconvenience of one big piece worthwhile. Unlike many "trails" of panels, this could not be broken into smaller pages without disrupting the flow and losing a lot of its impact.

reinx · Post by **reinx** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:03 pm

I agree, calling it the "BEST" webcomic, based merely on it's technical wizardry is a bit much. Perhaps, the best looking webcomic or best 3d webcomic is okay, but as far as story, its really not original or told well enough to merit the best status.
no offense, I can tell that a ton of time and effort went into it and kudos to the maker.
-Casey

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:26 pm

greg, could you puh-lease take out the URL for me? i'm trying to edit this thread and can't.

reason being:

i jumped the gun in posting this. patrick's still working on it and what's been posted is only a BETA VERSION of the strip. sorry about that, patrick!

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:28 pm

apparently, this URL's been going around. my friend had gotten it from another friend who'd emailed it. it's been making the rounds without patrick even knowing. i'm not sure what's going on.

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 7:10 pm

catgarza wrote:greg, could you puh-lease take out the URL for me? i'm trying to edit this thread and can't.

reason being:

i jumped the gun in posting this. patrick's still working on it and what's been posted is only a BETA VERSION of the strip. sorry about that, patrick!

Hm... Since we're mostly of a critical bent and interested in such things as works in progess, is there any harm in leaving the URL to the comic for the time being?

Has Patrick expressed any specific desire for people outside of those he'd emailed NOT to look at this comic? If he'd like us to remove the URL reference in this thread, I'll be willing to do it, but otherwise I think it's educational and interesting to see if the final comic differs in any great regard from this version and your posting of a URL a friend emailed you about doesn't look like any breach of confidence to me. Just post another reply after this one saying "yea" or "nay" and I'll remove or leave the URL as appropriate.

And anybody who's interested in viewing this later on should bookmark that URL now in the case that Cat confirms the request to remove it!

catgarza · Post by **catgarza** » Thu Jun 20, 2002 9:39 pm

and patrick has a nice new face for e-sheep, as well!!

go to e-sheep.com to check out DELTA THRIVES!

Buck Beaver · Post by **Buck Beaver** » Wed Aug 07, 2002 3:46 pm

Well, I realize I am replying to this thread a little late, but I just joined the board after reading Scott McCloud's books back-back (if you are reading this Scott, they were the best reads I've had in a long time!!! very thought provoking). Anyhew, here's my two cents:

On the issue of file size, I use a 56k dial-up connection at home and I do think an artist should take file size in to consideration BUT it shouldn't be an absolute factor restricting the artist's imagination (I think most people would agree with this). I haven't actually been able to successfully load the entire comic but what did download was awesome! I found the (flash?) animated elements really effect and it's nice to see animation used in a very restrained way.

I'm curious how people feel about the sideways scrolling, which seems to work quite nicely here. I'm putting the finishing touches on my own online comic which blends CG elements in a manner similar to what Patrick did (though completely different in style an execution) and I've been wrestling with horizontal/vertical scrolling issue.

XEREXES-MANIA · Post by **XEREXES-MANIA** » Thu Aug 08, 2002 9:09 am

catgarza wrote:ten years from now, it will download in no time and far surpass ANYTHING else contemporary to it

So its the BEST WEBCOMIC of 2012 ??

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:35 pm

As for file size, I suppose it all comes down to:

download time vs. amount of pleasure achieved when veiwing the comic

Maybe you could express that as a formula, like the following:

d.t. - pleasure = quality

The first variable, the download time, obviously differs depending on your internet connection. The second variable is going to be different for different people.

I like this particular comic. Even though it is still downloading as I write this, it looks like the "pleasure" variable will be high enough to warrent the high d.t.

vince

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:38 pm

come to think of it, there are other issues than download time alone, like scrolling and such. So maybe it would be best to replace download time with.... inconvenience

or something like that....

Though I suppose what one person may find an inconvenience, another person might find a pleasure...

Zwol.org

BEST WEBCOMIC OF 2002

BEST WEBCOMIC OF 2002

serious flaw

hey!

Hey, has anyone else had problems reading Pat's stuff?

d'oh

help!!!

also...

Re: help!!!

it's back up!

Better Late Than Never

Re: serious flaw