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Infinte Canvas, Infinite Frustration
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William G
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Location: South central...Korea. Word.

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Infinte Canvas, Infinite Frustration Reply with quote

Maybe I've been brainwashed by Scott and the rest of the web pioners, but I've been growing frustrated with all of the webcomics noobs who are going around to art boards and asking the following:

"I cant get my image file sizes smaller that 20000megs, can you help me?"

After visiting their webpage, I helpfully supply:

"You made a six panel gag-strip at 600 x 1200 pixels. Cut the page up, and make the panels smaller. The infinite canvas is your friend."

Inevitably, the response always boils down to:

"I want to get them printed"

And I just want to grab them and scream:

"THERE'S A REASON YOU'RE ON THE WEB AND NOT IN PRINT ALREADY! AND WHILE YOU'RE HERE, YOU SHOULD ADJUST YOU COMIC TO FIT THE MEDIUM!"

Now, I know I'm not a big supporter of overly experimental works (I still think they lose an audience we dont have yet) but at this point, I have come to accept that the infinite canvas is the best way to get stuff done on the web, and I cant understand why so many fear it.

This frustration: Is it me, or is it them?
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's them.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, that was snarky, but I couldn't resist.

First, point them to item #5 of Scott's ICST #3.

The note that Sluggy Freelance's Sunday comics (example) are formatted to change shape depending on browser width AND are formatted to print in book form neatly AND are split into different images! (Mostly. He sometimes doesn't split them up, but over 90% of them are.) Also, point out that his weirdly shaped panels in the comics from the Fire and Rain storyline were almost all completely rearranged for printing in book form (no link to show you- maybe I'll take a photo when I get home tonight) even though you'd think the nice rectangle would print just peachy. Interesting that in print form, these comics got broken up and appear more "infinite canvas" style than the web versions.

So, to sum up- It's them. They're not thinking things through. If they'd just open up their minds a little, they'd realize that there's more than one way to skin this particular cat and using a variety of methods is probably going to make it all better in the long run. And more creatively rewarding. And more fun. And save bandwidth. And.... And... And....

It's them.
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William G
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, I'm glad that my smug superiority is justified.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah. you know how schuster and seigle or whatever their names were actually physically cut up their first superman comic and rearanged it in desperation after getting rejected tons of times, and then it got accepted? Or so the legend goes.

Anyhow, nothing's sacred. If you have something you want to print, then just make sure it is saved in a printable format somewhere NOT on your website, and then have a web version on your site.

Which is what Greg was saying, I guess. Anyhow, I just wanted to chime in my two cents.

By the way, I think Flash is great for this. Or Illustrator. Or any vector program. Cause you don't have to worry about dpi. Just do you thing and output it at a low dpi for the web, and keep the original file saved somewhere else for whenever the print companies come a-knockin. But if you work with Photoshop or whatever, you are coloring at 300 dpi or up, and then saving your files takes two hours each time!!!!
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Vince Coleman
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Spyder
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont want to seem harsh, but most comics dont get to print anyways--and if you dont have the dedication or the politeness to make a comic easily readable on the net, why will you be diffrent in print?
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William G
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are you being harsh at?
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that was directed at a non-specific "you" which encompasses the people who were the subject of the first post in this thread.

But I could be wrong.
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William G
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just wondering because it didnt really seem all that harsh... or all that directed for that matter.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, here is me being harsh and direct. To you, Will.

I hate Will.

No, just kidding. You're one of the greatest guys in the universe.

Anyhow, you know, it occured to me: ARTISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CREATIVE.

Which means

1) People with no plans to print should start working with creative layouts
2) People with plans to print should work out creative ways to offer the same stuff on the web in a format that is good for the web.

Once again, say it with me: ARTISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CREATIVE.
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William G
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gazorenzoku wrote:

I hate Will.

I hate everyone on Will and Grace.
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kaos_de_moria
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gazorenzoku wrote:

1) People with no plans to print should start working with creative layouts
2) People with plans to print should work out creative ways to offer the same stuff on the web in a format that is good for the web.


i think there is many possibilities to publish comics on the web without having the drawback not being able to print. A4 format (or us long letter or whatever you guys use) is not a very good format for computers as screen are not really made for that. the effect is usually scroll-click-scroll-click etc. one possibility i detailed over in the hype comic in the horror comic thread:

kaos_de_moria wrote:
on ballad. i find the format of the pictures a bit annoying as i can see around 65% and then i have to scroll. and click and scroll etc. as it has so many pages i would find it nice if you'd combine multiple pages on one site - but without keeping the white frame but rather as if you'd painted for a 4 times longer paper. (i hope i am clear)


one clear advantage to this is, that you can make entities of sense (AKA chapters) which are obviously clear to the reader. another possibility is that you design your comic to be wide format. it can be printed like that as well.

of course, if you take full advantage of infinite canvas and web technologies going to print is rather difficult. but there is many ways to find a compromise. if you start to publish a comic on the web, i think it would be reasonable to give this a thought.

kaos
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, here in japan we are all ABOUT a4 sized paper. So, is this a unit used a lot in other places too? I thought it was just a Japanese thing. I really love the paper sizes here. A4, A3, B4, B3....

The comics industry here even sort of revolves around those paper sizes. You go to the store to pick up some comic paper, and you can choose A4 comic paper, B4 comic paper, etc. etc. With non-repro blue lines for the bleeds and stuff.

Of course, I use the stuff without the lines, cause I am drawing for American comics these days, which use the totally independant 9x6 inch system.

It is interesting that the Japanese comic size scale is so intertwined with standard paper sizes, where as the American comic size scale seems to be totally seperate from American paper sizes. Why is this?

And how is it in Europe?

Also.... I wonder if in the future, paper sizes that reflect the shape of a computer browser will start to pop up. And wouldn't it be interesting and cool to start to see comics being done on those papers? Then the whole "i wanna go to print with this some day" issue would be resolved.

Oh yeah, hey, William, for everyone who wants to go to print, they now can. Tell them to visit www.comixpress.com. For a 10 USD set up fee, you can get comixpress to print up as few as one comic at a time for you. The buyer pays for the comic, and out of that money the printing price is subtracted, plus a 20% fee for comixpress, and the artist pockets the rest.
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kaos_de_moria
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the A and B paper sizes are DIN , which is the Deutsche Industrie Norm (german industry standard). it is the paper size used all over europe and in many other countries, one exception is the US and a couple of countries use the american standard, some use even their own. that given. comics in europe often have standard size, but not all. as most comics are offset printed and the papers have to be cut anyway, it is not too important for the prize if you use special formats. of course, depending on your choice, you loose parts of the paper, which increases the cost, but it's not dramatic. as comics are rather expensive anyway, the cost of printing (just the process: ink and paper, not the involved work) is rather unimportant for the total cost. of course you can see tendencies in the market to produce cheaper than before and use cheaper printing techniques as well as cheaper paper, but compared to japanese 3 to 5 USD comics the paper, printing and binding techniques are still worlds away.

kaos
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