Zwol.org

Neil Cohn · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:35 am Post subject:

Man, this one is ripe for all sorts of gags...

Scott Understands Conventions

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Neil Cohn · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:38 am Post subject:

Greg Stephens · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:03 am Post subject:

Eric F Myers · Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject:

William G · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:39 am Post subject:

Considering that I only used altered copyrighted images, my contributions should be left out.

I dont even know if greg grabbed them anyway, so maybe it doesnt matter.
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russ · Regular Poster Joined: 29 Jun 2001 Posts: 26

Eric F Myers · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:02 am Post subject:

Greg Stephens · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:59 pm Post subject:

Haze · Regular Poster Joined: 22 Jun 2003 Posts: 34

Scott Understands Walruses

but he never noticed them either.

buzzard · Frequent Poster Joined: 30 Jul 2001 Posts: 70

Materials that incorporated other people's copyrighted permission, such as William G's and mine, probably do not qualify as fair use via parody. Read up on the Penny Arcade Strawberry Shortcake incident, where they thought the same thing as you, and found that they were wrong: adapting material A (e.g. Strawberry Shortcake, or, in my case, Xaio Xaio 3) in combination with B (American McGee, or, in my case, Scott McCloud) for purpose of poking fun at B (American McGee/Scott McCloud) does not constitute parody of A (Strawberry Shortcake/Xaio Xaio) and hence does not qualify as fair use.

russ · Regular Poster Joined: 29 Jun 2001 Posts: 26

I had the impression that the law was quite murky on that question of fair use and parody and so forth, and that in the real world it boils down to who has the most money and lawyers. Penny Arcade decided they could not afford to fight a multimillion dollar greeting card company, even though it was not clear they were in the wrong (as I recall). Similar examples abound. In some sense this is an academic distinction since the practical effect works out the same, though. :/ Of course many times such small-time parodies go under the radar and never cause a stink.

buzzard · Frequent Poster Joined: 30 Jul 2001 Posts: 70

Like I said, go read up on the Penny Arcade case.

Alright, sheesh, here I'll do the research for you.

It is murky, but it of course does not boil down to whoever has the most money. At a certain point the money ties, and the law wins out. And the point in the PA case (and I think it applies to this case) is that there are precedents against it. It's not open and shut; who can say how things would turn out. But in particular it's not trivially obviously going to be a winnable fair use case, money aside.

From http://www.tklaw.com/website.nsf/WEBnewx/E9C2CAE7D8D7B97786256CC40060291E (which PA themselves linked to, calling attention to the below, as one of the things that made them doubt the case was winnable):

William G @ PC room · Guest

This judgement makes sense to me. Creatively limiting, but sensible.

Anyway, I tossed those off in about five minutes each. I can contribute something original if this project goes ahead.

-Bill

Eric F Myers · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:33 am Post subject:

That doesn't make sense at all. If that was the case, MAD magazine would be in litigation's for the next 100 years. One court ruling doesn't make a law, it just interprets it. Some other judge down the road could interpret the law it differently and overturn it down the road.

But to be on the safe side we should try not to use any copyrighted material.
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BuckBeaver · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:29 am Post subject:

For those interested copyright and copyright myths, Jim Zubkavich (of Makeshift Miracle fame) has a short but very good list of sites at http://makeshiftmiracle.com/Links.html (scroll down to the "Web Comic Marketing" section).

Oh, and I'd be willing to volunteer to do the layout for the book since I do that all day at work anyway. Are we really going to do this? I think it's a great idea if Scott gives his OK.
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Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Personally, I think it would be cool to just maintain a permanent online gallery -- just a slightly more elaborate version of Greg's archive maybe. Maybe something with a big thumbnail front page, and a little submission page with a space for comments.

If you start to go toward print, you'd have to think about selling it, and then all those rights issues would come up, not to mention the hassle of printing generally and the inability to continually update.

Tim Mallos · Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject:

Perhaps a bitpass tip jar for CBLDF at the end of the gallery?

Tim
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Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Yeah! That'd be cool.

Greg Stephens · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:56 am Post subject:

Thus Scott proves that he understands silly web-tributes.

I can't put off updating the existing archive any longer, then, so that you have the complete set so far. I'll get to it in the next couple days, then.
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BuckBeaver · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

Greg, what is the URL for existing achive? Is there one?
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Greg Stephens · Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject:

It be here: http://www.zwol.org/archive.php3?type=understands

Only the first 15 are there right now. I need to add the rest, but I've saved them all and already uploaded most of them.
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