Privision
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Okay, I'm new to this board and if this has already been brought up then forgive me for not reading every post
I work for a big big media company and just had a call from these guys, trying to get us on board: http://www.privision.de
Sorry, it's all in German, but the jist is this: Users pay for online content through their phone/web access bill. They have to download this little app which monitors which sites they're visiting. If the app detects a participating site, the clock starts ticking, and the relevant amount of money is then added to their phone bill. The reverse is also possible, i.e. dial-up users can have their costs reimbursed by a participating site.
The company's CEO, a Herr Schneider, told me that they've patented the system globally, but that for the time being the only telecoms company they've struck a deal with is Deutsche Telekom.
I think this idea is perfect for online comics, especially in view of Scott's latest ICST.
Again, apologies if this has already been discussed.
I work for a big big media company and just had a call from these guys, trying to get us on board: http://www.privision.de
Sorry, it's all in German, but the jist is this: Users pay for online content through their phone/web access bill. They have to download this little app which monitors which sites they're visiting. If the app detects a participating site, the clock starts ticking, and the relevant amount of money is then added to their phone bill. The reverse is also possible, i.e. dial-up users can have their costs reimbursed by a participating site.
The company's CEO, a Herr Schneider, told me that they've patented the system globally, but that for the time being the only telecoms company they've struck a deal with is Deutsche Telekom.
I think this idea is perfect for online comics, especially in view of Scott's latest ICST.
Again, apologies if this has already been discussed.
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Hmm... i think that time-based payments are very tricky and risky...
like previously stated, it would almost encourage people to read fast, or to download the image onto their HD as quickly as possible, so as to be able to read it later at their leisure...
when i consider how naturally <i>slow</i> a reader i am, wanting to look at each panel and all its details, i'd be afraid to be losing a lot of the experience if i felt i had to rush myself, or wonder if i'm literally "spending" too much time on a comic...
an interesting idea, but not one that i think would be optimal for webcomics
[edited because i can't type]
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frank "damonk" cormier
<a href="http://framed.keenspace.com/"><i>FRAMED!!!</i></a>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: damonk13 on 2001-06-26 13:23 ]</font>
like previously stated, it would almost encourage people to read fast, or to download the image onto their HD as quickly as possible, so as to be able to read it later at their leisure...
when i consider how naturally <i>slow</i> a reader i am, wanting to look at each panel and all its details, i'd be afraid to be losing a lot of the experience if i felt i had to rush myself, or wonder if i'm literally "spending" too much time on a comic...
an interesting idea, but not one that i think would be optimal for webcomics
[edited because i can't type]
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frank "damonk" cormier
<a href="http://framed.keenspace.com/"><i>FRAMED!!!</i></a>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: damonk13 on 2001-06-26 13:23 ]</font>
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Still, there is a bit of potential for similar ideas.
There are already services (mostly porn sites) that will place charges on your phone bill, rather than billing a credit card. And phone companies can (and do) bill for services that are sold in discrete units (*69 in the U.S., for example, which I think is a $.30 charge per use where I live). So one wouldn't have to charge for time to utilize a phone-bill add-on system.
If an internet content provider (or group of them) were to partner with an established company use an existing billing system (phone, cable, ISPs, etc.), we could probably have a billable micropayment infrastructure up in no time.
-Max Leibman
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 14:18 ]</font>
There are already services (mostly porn sites) that will place charges on your phone bill, rather than billing a credit card. And phone companies can (and do) bill for services that are sold in discrete units (*69 in the U.S., for example, which I think is a $.30 charge per use where I live). So one wouldn't have to charge for time to utilize a phone-bill add-on system.
If an internet content provider (or group of them) were to partner with an established company use an existing billing system (phone, cable, ISPs, etc.), we could probably have a billable micropayment infrastructure up in no time.
-Max Leibman
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 14:18 ]</font>
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Martinibianco wrote (in response to Scott):
<BLOCKQUOTE><I>So you'd dismiss the idea off hand? Creeps or no creeps, Scott, it's arguably the closest the e-commerce world has come to a functioning micropayment system. It's up and running in Germany as I write this.</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess I can kind of see where Scott's coming from -- this sort of technology needs to be accessible to anybody anywhere, without one single entity controlling all transactions. Especially an entity like the Phone Company, who already has more than too much power over telecommunications (even after the landmark anti-trust cases that broke it up in to the so-called "Baby Bells").
I would like to see this sort of system explored as another good in-between step as we wait for fully Internet-based micropayments, but I suppose there is the great risk that they catch on as-is and stay in the hands of the phone companies.
-Max "Paranoia" Leibman
<I>Edited because Max is a moron -Max</I>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 17:29 ]</font>
<BLOCKQUOTE><I>So you'd dismiss the idea off hand? Creeps or no creeps, Scott, it's arguably the closest the e-commerce world has come to a functioning micropayment system. It's up and running in Germany as I write this.</I></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess I can kind of see where Scott's coming from -- this sort of technology needs to be accessible to anybody anywhere, without one single entity controlling all transactions. Especially an entity like the Phone Company, who already has more than too much power over telecommunications (even after the landmark anti-trust cases that broke it up in to the so-called "Baby Bells").
I would like to see this sort of system explored as another good in-between step as we wait for fully Internet-based micropayments, but I suppose there is the great risk that they catch on as-is and stay in the hands of the phone companies.
-Max "Paranoia" Leibman
<I>Edited because Max is a moron -Max</I>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 17:29 ]</font>
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>They have to download this little app which >monitors which sites they're visiting.
boy, this is big-brother-creepy. micropayments are truly anonymous (just like this post, at least to everybody but the admin
please, don't make people believe that this is the way it should be. it should not. micropayments should work like buing a bubble gum at a bubble gum machine - easy, deliberate, anonymous.
cheers
p.
boy, this is big-brother-creepy. micropayments are truly anonymous (just like this post, at least to everybody but the admin
please, don't make people believe that this is the way it should be. it should not. micropayments should work like buing a bubble gum at a bubble gum machine - easy, deliberate, anonymous.
cheers
p.
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Again, agreed 100%. The only way I can think of to truly de-centralize the process is if a user paid me for my content by direct online bank transfer. If you're going to have a browser/web-based micropayment system, then surely it will be centralized by definition? There will have to be a "brand", there will have to be an "app", your online transactions can never be truly anonymous. IMHO, for a successful system to catch on, internet users will need an absolute focus, and this, to me, means a single product, a single brand, a single name.
Having now spent the past 24 hours reading the threads on this board and the literature outside the board, I feel that for the micropayment discussion to progress, the question should cease to be "Can we decentralize micropayments?" and become "Which centralized system can we trust?"
Let the flames commence!
Martin.
(P.S. I sell banner advertising on a big corporate website for a living so I have nothing to gain from promoting micropayments to begin with! I'm on your side, guys!!!)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:21 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:22 ]</font>
Having now spent the past 24 hours reading the threads on this board and the literature outside the board, I feel that for the micropayment discussion to progress, the question should cease to be "Can we decentralize micropayments?" and become "Which centralized system can we trust?"
Let the flames commence!
Martin.
(P.S. I sell banner advertising on a big corporate website for a living so I have nothing to gain from promoting micropayments to begin with! I'm on your side, guys!!!)
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:21 ]</font>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:22 ]</font>