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Micropayments Thread on Comicon
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Scott McCloud
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Joined: 23 May 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Conley has posited that micropayments must automatically lead to the end of privacy.

I, um, disagree.

http://www.comicon.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000295.html

I'm tired...
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rstevens
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Joined: 16 Jun 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2001 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about i email you a ticket for free tacos when we're in san diego?

you deserve something for taking all this crap.

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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah- and how did this go from reinventing comics to reinventing micropayments?

Commerce, commerce, commerce! Let's take a break and talk about art.

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Scott McCloud
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Joined: 23 May 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will at San Diego at least!

"The Art of Digital Comics" is the first panel, Saturday at 2 pm. The "Business" panel is at 3 pm, same room.

Keenspot's panel, btw, is Thursday, 4-5:30 pm.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah- I'm looking forward to that first one. The business panel? I don't know-- I mean, I'm sure I'll stick around for it, but I may just wind up silently cringing in a corner. It's all starting to give me the screaming heebie-jeebies.

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glych
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Joined: 25 Jun 2001
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Location: So' Cal, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Business and art hardly mix, and when they do, it's usually shallow lies about what a small minority feels art should be...

And comics is an art.

to talk about the business of comics is just...well...depressing. I think I'm going to be spending that time, um....actually, sketching, or something..you know....artful instead of listening to a bunch of talking heads rattle on about the all mighty dollar and how it's affecting our "business"...

I don't make a cent off of my work, and I think it's twice as good as the shite being spewed out of back ends of the "big boys"...

yeah, I may not be in the big business, but I'm still in business- I mean, seriously, for the price of a few measily adds (no pop-ups too!) 1632 people per day visit my site to find out what them silly-like characters is up too and junk...

Which, for the price of a semi-slow download on a 56k, I think it better than driving 60 miles to the nearest comic shop to pay $4.00 for 24 pages of a girl with garganchuin breasts fighting with an over muscled captain cliche.

*sigh*

If that's their "business", then I don't want to be a large part of it.

-glych

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[ This Message was edited by: glych on 2001-06-29 02:48 ]
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rstevens
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Joined: 16 Jun 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-06-29 01:33, Scott McCloud wrote:
Keenspot's panel, btw, is Thursday, 4-5:30 pm.


you only mentioned it once in that post. why must you keep ignoring us!!? heh.

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jantangring
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Joined: 28 Jun 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an idea for a new kind of payment contract: selling for a fixed amount, in total that is.

It dont know if its attractive, but I hope someone?ll try it, cause its so cool, I think.

This is an example of the contract. Each buyer will pay me, the creator, 10 cents for the creative work. Until the total sum adds up to 100 dollars. Then pricing will drop. This goes for those who already payed too. They get money back.

The equation is I will sell for a total of 100 dollars. The buyers split the 100 dollars equally.

This schema approximates the ideal model using reasonable transaction costs (using 16 cents to make math easier).

1. The first 1000 buyers pay 16 cents each.
2. Price drops to 8 cents
3. Each new incoming 8 cent is passed along to an original 16 cent buyer. Until another 1000 buyers are in.
5. Another 2000 buyers pay 4 cents to first 2000 buyers
6. Another 4000 buyers pay 2 cents
7. Another 8000 buyers pay 1 cent
8. Additional payments are collected and sent to Amnesty international.

When actually reasonable to stop, will depend on the costs of transactions.

You can think of variations of this theme, but this is the one I like the most, for the symmetry and simplicity of the concept. And for the non-greediness of it.

(The more market oriented creator might for example want to refund all money to the first 1000 buyers. Or even share profits with them. This way creating an incentive to buy.)

Now you all go think about where this pricing model would seem appropriate!

And, find a way to handle the payments in a distributed manner.

And work out the details for making the contract fulfillment traceable. U know, like signing and stuff. How about this: the 16 cent buyers get the goods, plus an 8 cent IOU. They can later mail their IOUs, and get 8 cents back, plus a 4 cent IOU.

-- Jan T?ngring, journalist
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ptr
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Joined: 25 Jun 2001
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2001 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-06-28 12:43, Scott McCloud wrote:
Steve Conley has posited that micropayments must automatically lead to the end of privacy.

I, um, disagree.


i am with you here. i would post at comicon, but you have to be registered, and i'm tired of registering.

good micropayment systems are all about anonymity. it's actually quite easy, once you get the general idea. i wont go into details, but you can believe me that electronic money can be absolutely and untraceable anonymous.

i see that some general education about the topic is necessary. when i find time, i'll put up a webpage explaining micropayment theory for non-experts). when i find time.

until then you should (as an exception) trust the expert: micropayment can, and should!, be completely anonymous.

cheers
peter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2001 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this discussion about micropayments is worthwhile, but what we really need to do is get the businesspeople fired up about it (what are all those MBAs good for, anyway?). Once the entrepreneurs realize that micropayments could mean big money FOR THEM as well as for the creative people, we'll have more solutions than you can shake a stick at.
And who says that there has to be only ONE solution? There would probably be a dozen different solutions, and creative people would pick the ones that are most appropriate to their needs.
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ptr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2001 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-07-03 13:11, Anonymous wrote:
All this discussion about micropayments is worthwhile, but what we really need to do is get the businesspeople fired up about it ...
There would probably be a dozen different solutions...


There HAS been a dozen different solutions. it all was there, with celebrity IT people behind it, but it didn't catch on. even in the late 90ies, when internet was the only thing you put money into.

i believe that old economy isn't really that keen on micropayment systems. it would ruin everything. everything but the creators, that is.

cheers
peter
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