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Kris Lachowski
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:39 pm    Post subject: Political Compass Reply with quote

Scott i don't know if it is just me, but your political compass image isn't showing up on my computer.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermind, I guess you just fixed it
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a nifty graphic to post here, but my score came up to be:

Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

Which is a little up and to the left of the dot in Scott's graph.
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jturner
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm way the heck off in that corner

Economic Left/Right - 7.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.97

I guess I should get out there and vote for my local anarchist communist party. And post the comic I drew but never quite finished from last February 15.
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MSUSpar10
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-4.12, - 4.41


I think most who post here will be in this range...just a guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be a lot more impressed if there were more questions about public policy and fewer that amount to loaded political rhetoric. Also, there should really be a "neutral" or "no opinion" option when answering the questions.
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Jimmy Ho
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I took the testlast month, my score was {-8.62, -8.21}, wich puts me in the "Left Libertarian" corner.

However, the method used in the Political Compass has been found questionable, and an alternative test has been proposed, as you can see on this page at Deltoid (Tim Lambert maintains a chart of bloggers results to the Compass). I, for instance, was surprised to be more "libertarian" than Barry Deutsch, aka Ampersand, a -liberal feminist- political cartoonist (and great essayist, I must say).
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Jimmy Ho
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeshaJoy, I hadn't noticed your comment before posting mine, but you are not first to point this out. For what it's worth, here is the alternative (allegedly better) survey. I didn't try it myself, but you may want to compare the results obtained with both methods.
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mecherath
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey... I'm near Ghandi. Score!

Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy Ho wrote:
For what it's worth, here is the alternative (allegedly better) survey. I didn't try it myself, but you may want to compare the results obtained with both methods.


On this test, I scored:

left/right -3.1966 (-0.1924)
pragmatism +3.1981 (+0.1925)
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd be a lot more impressed if there were more questions about public policy and fewer that amount to loaded political rhetoric. Also, there should really be a "neutral" or "no opinion" option when answering the questions.
Quote:
However, the method used in the Political Compass has been found questionable
More to the point, the questioneer was obviously written by a liberal (to say the least), and the scale placement is just plain kooky. Some of the questions are worded in such a way that, if you don't give the liberaly correct responce, you sound like a cold blooded Nazi.

BTW, you lefty pigs, here's my score according to the first test.
Economic Left/Right: 2.62
Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.51

I think I'm more conservative than that (though my stong agreement with the legalization of weed knocked my score down - FREE TOMMY CHONG!).

Cheer up liberals! Saddam's in the bag. Don't worry, we'll give him a fair trial...and THEN we'll hang him!

I'm off to try the other tests.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

left/right +4.8300 (+0.2907)
pragmatism +2.1597 (+0.1300)

whatever the hell that all means.

This survey was a bit more balanced, but still had a slight liberal bent to it.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of mastering the obvious, how could the test not have seemed skewed in one direction or the other? If nobody thought it was skewed, then everybody would be scoring in the center. I do agree that neither of these tests appear very comprehensive, but I applaud the idea of starting to make people think of the range of opinion as a two-dimentional field than one-dimentional axis. Personally, I find that the one-dimentional either/or, left/right, liberal/conservative, us/them thinking is what makes political debate- particularly on the internet, where it's less debate and more shouting match- quite tiring.
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kobey
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a semi-aside, I think the politicalcompass.org questions were a bit muddy (i.e. including terms like "benefiting humanity" without explaining what they mean by that!). A simpler and much clearer test is found at [url]politopia.com[/url]. It asks for an email address before taking the quiz but you can put in a fake one. I live next door to Ayn Rand.

(This post is in response to Scott's blog where he posted his political compass results, since we're all getting all kinds a political here!)
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:50 pm    Post subject: politopia Reply with quote

Took the Politopia quiz (halfway between Jesse Jackson and FDR), but found it a bit more USian-centric than the other quizzes that have popped up in these discussions. For example, supporting nationalised healthcare puts you to the left on their quiz, but is essentially a centrist position here. And I'm sure in the section of one-word ideological descriptions, their "liberal" would mean something rather different than if I said "liberal".

However, the puns in that quiz? Centerville? The Main Stream? Yuck.
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IronSpike
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economic Left/Right: -5.38
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38

I'm so neat and orderly. Envy me.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
Cheer up liberals! Saddam's in the bag. Don't worry, we'll give him a fair trial...and THEN we'll hang him!


It almost sounds like you're being sarcastic, and implying tha liberals are sad that Saddam is captured and will probably be executed.

I'm pretty sure most of us couldn't be happier. The black and white world of "if you dislike Bush, then you must love Saddam" really detracts from the credibility of a lot of conservative people I come across on such boards.

But you're an MI reader, so surely you don't have that misimpression.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd be surprised how many real-lefty-liberals are, conciously or not, are a bit dissapointed that's Saddam's on ice. Howard Dean's campain workers chat rooms, and message boards were filled with people talking about how this was a "bummer", because it hurts Dean's campaign; which is running on a pacifist-appeasment platform. Worse, it's helps Bush's chances of getting re-elected. And I saw I few dissapointed smirks on the faces of some known-liberal TV journalists.


Actually, the point I was trying to made about the liberal bent of the questions, is that if you phrase a question one way you get one answer. Phrase it another way, you get the oppostie answer. I paraphrase this example from that great literary source, Mad Magazine (Iss. 229)

The Issue: Allowing stores to be open for buisness on Sunday.
Ask a working man "Do you think that stores should be allowed to remain open of Sundays so that working people can have some extra time to shop and buy the necessities of life?" and he'll say he's for the issue.

Now, ask that same man "Do you think stores should be closed on Sunday so that the greedy owners won't be able to squeeze the last penny out of the poor shoopers EVERY DAY of the week?"
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mecherath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
You'd be surprised how many real-lefty-liberals are, conciously or not, are a bit dissapointed that's Saddam's on ice. Howard Dean's campain workers chat rooms, and message boards were filled with people talking about how this was a "bummer", because it hurts Dean's campaign; which is running on a pacifist-appeasment platform. Worse, it's helps Bush's chances of getting re-elected. And I saw I few dissapointed smirks on the faces of some known-liberal TV journalists.


Well, the political views of people in power or on television are questionable at best. Politics is a game of power, so anything that hurts your stance is a bad thing. So yeah, the higher ups, and the Dean fanatics might be disappoined that Sadaam was captured, but they have ulterior motives out the wazoo.

Most liberals are liberal because it matches the conclusions they've come to thinking on their own. I think it's safe to say that most conservatives are conservative for the same reason. I'm sure there's tons of things done by prominent conversatives and their supporters that you wouldn't want to associate yourself with.

I guess the point is that, sure, there are some people who are mad that Saddam was captured. These people are simply stupid. Saddam did plenty of evil in his time, and putting your political campaign on the same level as the people he killed, tortured, and subjugated is just wrong. On the same note, there are plenty of conservatives that are happy that Saddam's capture has "won them the election." Pot, I believe this kettle is calling you black.

Good point on that second part though. Surveys are always biased in one direction or another. It's a fact of life. They can be fun to take though, and their results aren't always bunk.

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm a liberal, not a democrat. I don't think I like Dean much either.
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Cyborg Caveman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 11:50 pm    Post subject: getting results.... Reply with quote

Looks like I'm a little to the north of Gandhi on the political compass. My results on the other one were...

Axis Position
1 left/right -3.4260 (-0.2062)
2 pragmatism -0.4823 (-0.0290)

A bit to the left and pragmatic as hell apparently. My question on this one is where in the hell do they get results like that for Blair? Anyway, on the politopia one...

Apparently they think I belong in Centerville, but to judge from their description of it (and me) they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. That aside I found this to be the weakest of the tests overall.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mecherath wrote:
I guess the point is that, sure, there are some people who are mad that Saddam was captured.
To tell ya the truth (don't I always?); when I said "Cheer up liberals! Saddam's in the bag. ", I really wasn't suggesting that most liberals, at least in the U.S., didn't want Saddam to be nabbed - though it's true in the case some the diehard Usless Idiots.

Rather, I was alluding to the fact the many liberals have been moaning that Iraq and Afghanastan are becoming quagmires like Vietnam. They crow constantly, "So, when is your boy, Bush, gonna catch Bin Laden? When is your boy, Bush, gonna come up with the WMDs? When is your boy, Bush, gonna catch Saddam? He's never finding any of them, and he's gonna lose this war."

Well, we're not losing the war. We caught Saddam. We'll find those WMDs (It's easier to hide vials of anthrax, than people - inanimate objects don't need food or water, and they don't have to go to the bathroom) And we'll find Bin Laden - he's gonna have to come out of his cave one of these days. So, just be patient and cheer up!
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gareis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a reason for the war with Iraq that few mention. Saddam sent SCUDs at our ally, Israel. That was ten, twelve years ago, and we should have deposed him then.

The other reasons were suspected links to Al Qaeda, suspected WMDs, and Saddam's strategies for maintaining order within his country. The first two are completely justified as casi belli because they are potentially hurtful to the US--but to reverse the scenario, Saddam was justified because the US was potentially hurtful to his reign at the time. (It has proven itself hurtful to the regime since then.)

So it's down to matters such as using chemical weapons on your own people because of their civil protests. It's not a nice thing to do from their perspective, but from the dictator's, it's completely logical, even expedient. But it's wrong. Therefore expedience is not the same as good.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
I really wasn't suggesting that most liberals, at least in the U.S., didn't want Saddam to be nabbed - though it's true in the case some the diehard Usless Idiots.


I must be one of those "useless idiots" because I really couldn't give less of a toss about finding a louse-riddled homeless guy living in a septic tank. The hell he created for himself was harsher than any we're legally allowed to subject him to.

But even if it weren't, I'm a bigger believer in pragmatic justice than in the punitive kind. The apprehension of a powerless ex-despot means squat to me.

And if Saddam's capture means we'll have to suffer four more years of the beady-eyed smirking devil spawn that is Bush, then HELL YES I'm disappointed at his capture.

Rip Tanion wrote:
We'll find those WMDs


Next to Saddam's UFO, no doubt, and his herd of unicorns. I thought the whole impetus for Bush and his cronies banging the drums of war was because we'd essentially found (or at least fabricated) reams of evidence regarding the WMD's existence. Why now, all of a sudden, are they so IMPOSSIBLE to locate? Did Elvis magically whisk them away to his super-secret invisible HQ on the dark side of the moon?

Or did they simply not exist? The whole Bush Lie that this invasion was in any way connected to his "War On Terra" was just a mask to hide his real reasons for invading Iraq: his thirst for power, his hunger for money and his complete impotence as a human being. If he has unresolved daddy issues, I suggest he work them out on a couch and not on the bloodied soil of a foreign nation. Or the plundered coffers of this one. It's not cheap I know, but I've a hunch he could find a decent therapist for a hell of a lot less than $89 billion. Even in Washington.

If any WMD's exist at all, they're likely wedged up Bush's a**. Next to that rusted wind-up tin toy he calls a brain...

Chris
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem with the political compass quiz it seems to be based almost entirely on how people stand on issues of civil liberty, morality, questions of economics, etc., but scarcely gives any weight to people's environmental views. Nor does it address Zero Population Growth, arguably the most important topic the world's not talking about.

Perhaps the compass graph should be plotted on a CUBE rather than a square...

Chris B.
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