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Bumblejumper
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Stephens wrote:
Not to say "I told you so," but... I mentioned that "previous coffee" might be one interpretation of "last coffee". I bet Scott comes up with a few more possible permutations.


I guess you did say that. My apologies.
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BBrucker2
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Stephens wrote:
Not to say "I told you so," but... I mentioned that "previous coffee" might be one interpretation of "last coffee". I bet Scott comes up with a few more possible permutations.

Ah, and I thought that I was being original.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2004 4:16 pm    Post subject: Mimi's tale Reply with quote

Mimi wrote:
I had to run for the bus, and took the coffee with me
Is running with hot coffee as bad as running with scissors?

Mimi wrote:
...to buy Marcel these Cubans[yecch!] they'd gotten at Puff 'N' Stuff...
I'm picturing a cigar store manned by people inside giant, creepy costumes. Can't do a little, 'cause you can't do enough!

Mimi wrote:
The bus hit a bump, and the coffee got all over my new blouse! I was so upset...
I smell a lawsuit.
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Chronosome
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2004 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These characters really write themselves. I'm learning a lot with this one.
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Tim Mallos
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's a shady cigar shop. Aren't Cuban Cigars still contraban in the US? Don't we have an air-tight embargo in place still?

Reminds me, I need to smoke those Cubans before they dry out....

Tim
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor Mimi had a bad day looking for them cigars...and it looks like it probably got worse.

Here a small nitpick: Shouldn't the cigar store guy's shirt pocket (with protector) be on his left side, instead of his right?

Tim Mallos wrote:
Reminds me, I need to smoke those Cubans before they dry out....
When is old Fidel finally gonna dry out?

I once took a couple puffs off of a Cuban stogie. It tasted like elephant piss! Yecch! You can get them in Canada, and then smuggle them into the U.S., but why would you want to? I'd rather bring over a few cases of Labatt's.

Don't worry, Tim, I won't rat you out to the Feds.

Right now, I'd like to send Jose Contreras back to Cuber...unless he can get his shit together in the near future.
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Tim Mallos
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you smoke an occasional cigar Rip, or just the one Cuban?

I'm not an expert (maybe I smoke 3 a year), but I really enjoy a Cohiba.

...when visiting either Mexico or Canada.

Yeah.

T
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
I'd rather bring over a few cases of Labatt's.


Ew ... Labatt's.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Mallos wrote:
Do you smoke an occasional cigar Rip, or just the one Cuban?
I've smoked the occasional cigar in the past, but I could never finish one. The Cuban was probably the grossest one I ever had. I don't touch cigars anymore. Personally, I just don't get the whole cigar thing. Now, I stick to good old cigarettes; but that's because I'm addicted.

When I think of cigars I think of Izzy Call. He and his wife were friends of my grandparents, when I was a kid. Izzy always had a cigar in his mouth...with the white, icky, chewed up tip. He had a gravely voice, and a scary looking face. And his cigars always stunk to high heaven. Kind of turned me off to the whole cigar thing.

When cigars becames fashionable during the previous decade, I said "What the hell. Let me see what all the fuss is about." After a while I just got tired of turning green.

Doc MacDougal wrote:
Ew ... Labatt's
What are you, Doc? A Molson man? Moosehead? If it's one thing you Candian's know how to do, it's brew good beer.
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given my druther's, I like Big Rock or some of the Unibroue beers (Blanche de Chambly and Maudite). And I have a special place in my heart for Keith's, having been born in Halifax on Alexander Keith's birthday. I like Sleeman Steam quite well, too.

I mean, I'll drink Labatt or Molson if it's offered. But coming to Canada seems like an awful lot of work to go through for mediocre beer. If you're going to do something, do it right, eh?
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit, Doc, I've never heard of those brands before. I guess I'm only really familiar with what's commonly exported here to the U.S. When I went to Canada (which was twice, once to Toronto, once to Montreal) Labatt's and Molson where all over the place; kind of like Bud and Miller are all over the U.S., except Labatt's and Molson are a hell of a lot better. I still love Moosehead best amongst the three, but it's a lot harder to find by me.

Next time I go to Canada, I'll have to try those other beers that you mentioned.
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2004 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, distribution will be spotty in bars and pubs. But the Beer Store and LCBO in Ontario generally stock some or all of them; I don't know as much about the situation in Quebec, but I would still think that you'd have some luck. You won't be sorry to have put in the effort, trust me.
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gareis
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mimi, you kind-hearted, optimistic fool....
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's our Mimi!
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sjaffredo
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Mimi's last coffee Reply with quote

This new Flash formula works brilliantly. Solves the main problem so far, ie uncomfortable scrolling up/down and left/right. This is bringing online comics to yet another level. I'm admirative of this superb creativity. Bravissimo!
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wansley
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject: Panel count in "Mimi" Reply with quote

DecafSilicon wrote:
When we later examine this comic's length, how are we going to count the panels? Can we double them up like Scrabble?


You know, that's a rather interesting question. I think you could make a good argument for counting each panel that appears in multiple paths multiple times. But, since my purpose in counting panels is to get some kind of measure for the length of the comic that is related in some way to the amount of effort it took to create it, I am going to count each individual panel only once.

(Not to mention the fact that it will be much easier for me that way! )
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wansley
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Your wish is Scott McCloud's command Reply with quote

Jerome Boulbes wrote:
I believe the close-up on the panels is too close. It would be better I think to be able to see 4-5 panels at once. Or to have an intermediate level of zoom.

but appart from that, this an interesting way of looking at a comic.


Not long after this message was posted, Scott added an intermediate level of zoom, although it's not quite as close as Jerome Boulbes asked for and it's not not possible to actually read the text at that zoom level, so it really isn't an alternate way to read the comic. However, it does make navigating through the sections you are already familiar with much easier and so I find it quite worthwhile.

I was impressed with the flexibility of the Tarquin Engine, to allow Scott to make a change like this so quickly, and I nearly posted a message saying so, but then I had a nagging doubt. Was the intermediate zoom there all along, and I just didn't notice because there were so few panels in the beginning? So I didn't say anything.

But now it seems plain to me that Scott is deliberately creating the intermediate level of zoom functionality in "Mimi" because it doesn't work for new panels immediately. If you hover the Tarquin Engine mouse pointer (gray circle) over any of the panels but the last two in the newest, downward extending, branch of the comic, you will see the "move and zoom" pointer (circle with plus sign inside and arrowhead outside), but you will just see the gray circle if you hover outside the last, bottom-most two panels. (Of course, Scott may have fixed the problem before you read this.)

So I do want to say that I am impressed with the fexibility of the Tarquin Engine. And I think Scott deserves a round of applause not only for his willingness to support new, promising technologies in the Morning Improv, but also for his willingness to listen to his readers and accommodate their requests.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Your wish is Scott McCloud's command Reply with quote

wansley wrote:
Not long after this message was posted, Scott added an intermediate level of zoom...

Did he add it manually or is it merely a function of the Tarquin engine that when there are a certain number of panels within a certain distance from each other, an intermediate zoom becomes available? I had suspected that it was automatic, since noting how the pointer behaves when moved over various parts of the interface at different zoom levels suggests to me that this is algorithmic behaviour rather than specified behaviour.

Scott and Merlin have also said that to use the Tarquin engine is as easy as dragging and dropping panels into the workspace, so I don't think Scott is getting into the real nitty-gritty of the code.

On the other hand, there may be an easy way to define various levels of zoom and maybe Scott can adjust the areas that allow zooming and how much they zoom. The ending of Externality's Ninja v. Jesus thread certainly shows that you can make an indirect link between clicking on a small panel and viewing another larger one which is in a completely different location than the one on which you have clicked (unless the larger panel is somehow "under" or "over" all the other panels so that users really are clicking on the large panel when they think they're clicking on the small one. There may be lots of ways to spoof the engine with such a technique).
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wansley
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Your wish is Scott McCloud's command Reply with quote

Greg Stephens wrote:
wansley wrote:
Not long after this message was posted, Scott added an intermediate level of zoom...

Did he add it manually or is it merely a function of the Tarquin engine that when there are a certain number of panels within a certain distance from each other, an intermediate zoom becomes available?

I don't know the answer to your question, I am merely speculating. At first I thought that the intermediate zoom (IZ) was an automatic function of the Tarquin engine (TE) as well, but my observations of IZ in "Mimi" led me to believe otherwise.

Assuming that my observations (and my memory of them) are correct, at one point in the past few days, there was no IZ at all in the downward reading branch of "Mimi". And now IZ extends only partway down, not including the final two panels. But, there is no such "lack of IZ coverage" at the ends of any of the other branch ends in "Mimi".

My current assumption is that you define IZ areas in the TE by somehow defining retangular areas that span multiple panels, in some kind of user-friendly, GUI way.

I could be dead wrong. We won't know until Scott or Merlin respond.
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William G
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Mimi's last coffee Reply with quote

sjaffredo wrote:
uncomfortable scrolling up/down and left/right.

Jesus, how fucking lazy has the web made us?
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BuckBeaver
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, I was thinking almost the exact same thing.
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ShadowCaster
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott nicely leaves the directories of his website list readable and Mimi's directory contains all the versions of the improv so you can check if the intermediate zoom level is a recent addition or not.
http://www.scottmccloud.com/comics/mi/mi-26/
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the delay in responding. I was pretty useless yesterday while recovering from the whatever-it-was. Still a bit woozy, but at least I can see straight.

In answer to the current question: Yes, the Intermediate zooms are manually added via an invisible large "panel" in the bg. I'm a bit behind on those, hence the lack of IMs in the current branch. Hope to correct that soon.

BTW: I don't think a dislike of unnecessary scrolling is a sign of laziness?and I'm speaking as one who's required massive amounts of scrolling in the past. The key, as I see it, is to find ways that the reader can use a single navigational method throughout a story without having to constantly change gears. Justine Shaw does that successfully at http://www.nowheregirl.com with a click-page-click-page rhythm. Downscrollers and sidescrollers do that with a scroll-read-scroll-read rhythm. Merlin's method, while a little more exotic at first glance, also creates that seamless experience with a click-read-click-read rhythm (regardless of whether that click results in a pan or a zoom).

Where interfaces start causing problems is where two or more modes of navigation are required *within* the story. I'd include my own "My Obsession with Chess" on such a list (side and down-scrolling constantly alternating to get it in view) or some of the features on Modern Tales which require both a page click and scrolling to get everything on screen for each page.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we all agree that the genius of the Tarquin engine is that it really is a single simple elegant system for navigation. I was showing "Mimi's Last Coffee" to a small room of web designers (who are largely unfamiliar with web comics and fussy about user interfaces) yesterday and they all commented on how relatively simple and intuitive the navigation was.
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