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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: how are the Power Puff Girls drawn??? Reply with quote

How the HECK are the Power Puff Girls drawn? The lines are too perfect to be hand inked, and the line width varies too much to be done with any software I'VE seen.

So, what I'm wondering is, is there a software they use to get that effect? You know, like, draw a line and then tell the computer to "stroke" it (like in Illustrator) with the ends tappered?

I want to know. If this CAN be done in Illustrator or something, I might consider using it for my art. I love inking by hand, but it does present certain problems....
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Jason Alderman
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince,

Yes, Illustrator can do this. I'm pretty certain it can, at least...I've got it, but haven't really tooled around with it much.

Animation programs like Moho can do this, too.
http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/

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Tim Mallos
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything is possible these days!

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/193469/Action/FullPreview

Click through the sample images at the top of the larger image. All rendered by cold un-feeling machines.

Tim
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Mallos wrote:
All rendered by cold un-feeling machines.


...just like my life.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Alderman wrote:
Yes, Illustrator can do this. I'm pretty certain it can, at least...


Thanks. Anyone out there know how?

I checked out Moho. Looks cool. Didn't see any tapered lines jumping right out at me, but I can check more closely later...
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moho:

http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/features/variable_lines.jpg

Now I just have to find out if they did that through skillful use of a pressure sensitive tablet (which I have, but can't seem to get the hang of) or through some sort of ... computer aided process....

In the meantime, since I can't afford any new software at the moment and Illustrator is going to arrive here at my place soon, does anyone know more about how to do this with Illustrator, without using a pressure sensitive tablet? Or Flash?
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Jason Alderman
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Vince, I think the pressure sensitive tablet is the way of the game for variable line widths...you may be able to hand tweak the lines point-by-point in Illustrator, but it's much easier once you get the hang of the stylus and tablet. (Took me about a month or two.)

What kind of tablet are you using?
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine that, at the very least, there are some plug-ins that will mimic variable width lines based on a normal vector path without needing to tweak each and every line manually. I don't use Illustrator, but I do use Corel Draw for vector drawing and that does this. I can't imagine that Corel has any feature that Illustrator doesn't.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know... it seems like there SHOULD be something out there by now.... Greg, how does it work with Corel?

Jason - my tablet is a 10,000 yen (about US$ 100) small wacom tablet. I think it is the cheapest one. Is THAT why it is difficult for me? I hope this doesn't sound like boasting or whatever, but I have pretty much mastered the tappered line effect with a real ink brush on paper. So it shouldn't be that hard on a tablet.... Or should I expect another year or so of practice to get the technique down to my satisfaction on a tablet? It took me about.... oh, maybe a year to get the technique down to my satisfaction with a real brush. Of course I'll always be improving, but there is a certain point where you're like, "ok, this is good for now." I've reached that with the brush. The tablet? My tablet work is just horrible....
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Jason Alderman
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vince,

I've got a ~$100 4x5 wacom graphire, and I've been happy with it, but I'm not a trained artist by any stretch and probably couldn't use a brush and REAL INK to save my life. It is however, much better than the old 4x5 wacom ArtPadZ--I don't know if the innards are much improved or the drivers, but I couldn't get into drawing on the computer until I bought the graphire.

As far as size of tablet goes, I've heard bigger is better, but I've always drawn very small on paper, so the small wacoms are just fine for me...especially when you can hotkey zoom features on the screen of your computer to add finer detail where needed.

Graphires work only in z-axis/up-down pressure-sensitivity, though, and I've been told that "real artists" prefer the wacom intuos line, which is smart enough to tell which angle you're leaning the stylus at, and can therefore better emulate a real brush. I don't have an Intuos, and I know embarassingly little about painting or brushwork, frankly, so hopefully someone else will post here with a little more knowledge on the subject.

Also, as Greg said--in Flash when you draw lines without pressure-sensitivity turned on, I've noticed it sometimes tapers the ends of the brush-lines, so perhaps there is something built-in that can do this.

Hrmm.
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Jason Alderman
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.wacom.com/productinfo/accessories.cfm

Down at the bottom are different pens that can imitate brushes and inking...? I really don't know enough about this, but I'm curious now...although it may be a little cost prohibitive.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's interesting.... maybe my tablet is just not a good tablet....

on the moho front, here is what they said about changing line width:

Quote:
"Basically, each point along a curve can define the width of the curve at that point. Try this simple example: draw an oval in Moho. Then, activate the Outline tool and select all the points in the oval. Press the spacebar to finalize the outline. Next, activate the Line Width tool - click on one of the points in the oval and drag the mouse side-to-side to change the width of the outline as it passes through that point."


So it looks like this software makes it possible to change line width in an even, Power Puff Girls style. Maybe I'll have to try it out...

But since I'm already due to get an academic version of Illustrator soon, if it can do the same thing I'll just go with that... Moho looks cool, though...
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Anasazi
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a Wacom graphire, and have used the intuos. Intuos is better. (And twice as expensive.) I've had extremely limited luck with tapered lines in Photoshop 5.0, and better luck with the bundled software, Procreate. Of course, Photoshop is better for everything else . . . sigh.

Anyway, it's not too hard to stroke the lines thicker with the right tool and the right software - and damned hard otherwise. I bet the Powerpuff animators are using the good stuff. At our film school, there's a program that can alter outlines, blur outlines, and fake animation pretty well (from live action). Of course, it's not available for the common man yet, but it's heady stuff.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: how are the Power Puff Girls drawn??? Reply with quote

gazorenzoku wrote:
How the HECK are the Power Puff Girls drawn? The lines are too perfect to be hand inked, and the line width varies too much to be done with any software I'VE seen.

So, what I'm wondering is, is there a software they use to get that effect? You know, like, draw a line and then tell the computer to "stroke" it (like in Illustrator) with the ends tappered?

I want to know. If this CAN be done in Illustrator or something, I might consider using it for my art. I love inking by hand, but it does present certain problems....


hey there, just passin thru. i'm using illustrator 10 and a intuos2 (4x5) on a mac. the answer is yes. it might take the intuos2 tablet to get illustrator and photoshop to open the pressure sensitive stuff, but it does work. and illus cleans up the line after drawing. you can adjust the the taper effect with the tablet driver software and tweak it in illus. then convert the stroke to outline and tweak it some more. it does look really good!

as i see the time difference since you first posted, you might know this by now, but have fun anyhow!

sean
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Tim Tylor
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gather Adobe Photoshop can do computer-generated tapering lines, though I haven't had the chance to try it myself.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, I figured out how to get the effect perfectly on Flash. The problem is, it takes WAY too much time. So I have abandoned it for now and gone back to hand inking for the time being.

Until I find a faster way to do it, that is. I might try again. We just got Illustrator, so I'll install that and see what happens.

Anyhow, what I did on Flash was to draw with really thick lines, and then convert the lines into shapes (you have to do this one or two lines at a time... if you select a whole drawing and do this, it freaks it out for some reason). Once you convert a line into a shape, use the black arrow (not that white one) on the top left side of the tool box to pull the end of the line into shape. You can pull the middle of the line up, which kind of thins it out a little, and then attack it from the side. Pull one side of the line (which is technically a shape at this point) towards the opposite side, and you get a nice, sharp point on the end. It really looks nice. Hard to describe how to do, but basically you use that black arrow to pull it around until it tappers to a nice point on the end.

The main reason I wanted to try to get a computer to give me a nice tappered line was speed. But this process takes so long, it isn't worth it. For comics at least. Maybe a single illustration could warrent taking that much time...

Also, I wanted to see about making my circles and squares sharper and cleaner. That is the cool thing about the computer line that I'm not very good at when I work by hand. If something is round, you can make it perfectly round. Yeah, you could do the same thing with hand inking tools, but I just don't.

Anyhow, I decided that while getting perfect circles was cool, and one day I'd like to use the whole computer technique IF i can find a fast way to do it, for now I kind of like my wavy, hand drawn circles.

Anyhow, that is the Flash method. I'll try Illustrator next. And then a more expensive tablet at some point.... but not for a loooooong time....
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gazorenzoku wrote:
I'll try Illustrator next. And then a more expensive tablet at some point.... but not for a loooooong time....



hey..

first of all, trust that i don't sell tablets but--if you're thinking about getting a more expensive tablet. believe me do it. i hummed and hawed, and eventually sold a bunch of cd's to make up the difference, but the tablet with the higher sensativity is a must. it will open up features in flash as well as photoshop & illustrator (though i haven't tried it with other software like coreldraw or freehand, i imagine it would be similar) such as tapered lines. you could "ink" your scans or drawings right in flash itself or illus. and depending on the sensativity settings of the tablet it would look very close to an inked line. your angle of the stylus on the tablet will also affect the brush shape.

from what you described about flash, that sounds like a drawing nightmare. with the pricier tablet your productivity (in computer drawing, anyway) will soar. it's about as close to actually drawing as you can get on a computer. i've used flash in some animated tv shows and props, layouts and characters are all drawn in flash with an intuos tablet.

so save yer sheckels, sell some dusty cds/dvds/yer body, whatever but get the better tablet, you'll be glad you did and wonder how you ever got along without.

cheers
sean
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like the term "hummed and hawed"..... i imagine you sitting on a chair in some dusty old room, maybe a rocking chair, hunched over, with your chin resting on a slightly clenched fist, and going "hummmmmm...... hawwwwwwww" in a really low voice, but not quite a whisper.

OK, down to business. Seems like the expensive tablet is the way to go. The fabled "intuos"?

Anyone else feel that way?
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Dan Hernandez
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey all this may be too late but i wanted to say that you don't need a tablet to create tapered lines, all you need to do is go to window>brush libraries> artistic sample/ then you can use the tapered brushes. i actually created my own brush set similar to those ones to draw the following

http://www.pennydreadfull.net/stupidcrap/bubbles.gif
http://www.pennydreadfull.net/pf5.html
http://www.pennydreadfull.net/pf8.html
http://www.pennydreadfull.net/pf6b.html
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow! In what software?
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Dan Hernandez
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in adobe illustrator 10
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: window>brush libraries> artistic sample > tapered b Reply with quote

ok, then, window>brush libraries> artistic sample > tapered brushes it is! Thanks!!! We just got Illustrator in the other day. I am really busy with tons of other projects (finally got a publishing company to publish me...whee!!), but as soon as I can get to it, I am gonna try it out!!! Can't wait!
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Dan Hernandez
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

like i said personally i don't like those particular brushes so i made my own. for one they don't really have a brush with two true points on both ends of the stroke. but those tapered ones should give you an idea of how to make your own art brushes.
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gazorenzoku
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool. thanks! I'll post something when i finally get around to experimenting.... those drawings you made looked exactly like what i am looking to do. so i'll try making my own brushes!! can't wait!!
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