Idea on comic 'Grading' (kindly read and help out cc's!)

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ashess
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Post by ashess »

*cough* okay, this is the deal. I've been wanting some useful feedback on my comics for quite a while. But all I ever get is 's good. kinda nice. funny.
That's not what I would call contructive critique. (well, I've got a little. *g* I should be complaining this much)
Still, I 've been trying to give other pplp feedback as well, and I've found out that the biggest problem is, I don't know where to begin.
Now I've had the same problem trying to grade my student's work (I teach art at a school)
So I'm trying to make a basic form to help us all out. the ultimate plan would be to either start a group (or use an existing group) to 'grade' (read: provide useful critique) eachother's work in a useful way. or maybe put up a homepage wher you can look up these statistics.
Now, I've started a form, but I think I probably still left out a lot of important stuff. or maybe overemphasized what I feel is important in a comic. Kindly help me out so I get a form (most) ppl will be happy with, K?

Here goes.
ashess
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Post by ashess »

(just go here.)

URL:

http://www.geocities.com/asashess/FORM.htm

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ashess on 2001-12-15 06:26 ]</font>
ashess
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Post by ashess »

sorry about that, but the link, at least, works.
gazorenzoku
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Post by gazorenzoku »

I didn't read the entire form yet, but it looks good. It certainly is a great idea.

This kind of coincides with the string I started about site promotion. Since we are all doing this stuff for free, payment in comments and evaluations would be a big plus. It would help me when times get tough, anyhow...

Well, that wasn't much of a response, but I am a little pressed for time right now and just wanted to say I love your idea and can't wait to take part in it...

vince
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Tailsteak
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Post by Tailsteak »

A very good idea. Gee, it feels wrong to just say that now....
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Post by Guest »

Is this converted from a Word doc? If so you may want to make the original doc available, so people can fill in and send the results electronically.

-Justin
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ashess
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Post by ashess »

yes, it is. I was thinking about that too.
I can probably even make a download link if I check my html.
Definitely a good idea.
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Post by jturner »

That is an interesting and throrough form, but I wonder if it is necessarily appropriate.

I used to run into this problem with zines, when someone would send me something in trade and... it just wasn't my cup of tea. So what am I to say in reply? Usually I would try to focus on what I liked about it. To be encouraging.

Since no one is getting paid, we are all doing it for the love of comics. And so if someone is putting the time and effort into doing the work, they obviously feel strongly about it. So would it be productive to send them an exhaustive report on why you think their comic sucks?

I can understand your desire for concrete comments on your work, but I guess this solution just isn't my cup of tea...

Jason Turner
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Post by gazorenzoku »

yeah... grading or commenting can be a difficult thing, and not everyone should have to do it...

but it might be nice if there was some sort of form to make it easier for those who might like to offer some sort of comment but aren't sure what to say beyond "I like it" or "i don't like it"

As an art school student, first in my home country of America and now in Japan, I am seeing different ways to talk about art. In America we would go all off on each others' pieces, ranting and raving in the middle of class. It was great fun for everyone... most of the time. Here in Japan, or at least at my school in particular, no body really says much at all. Sometimes if you ask someone, they might say something like, "the balance is off" or "I like the browns" or something vague like that, but no in depth discussions of emotive qualities or the use of flat planes or whatever else kind of art crap that used to entertain me for hours back home.

I happen to think that both systems (frequent commenting and silence) have their pros and cons, but if you are going to go the route of criticism, what are the kinds of things to keep in mind?

I always try to find something that I like and do not like in every piece (when I am asked for an opinion). It is a little bit like playing the devil's advocate in an argument. Multiply this sort of thinking by whatever numeral representing your free time, and quite a well balanced critique can form.

(American) Art school... where I learned how to <b>talk</b> about art......oh how I miss it...

this message didn't really have much meaning... and it probably isn't anything that no one already doesn't know already... so why did I hit the submit button? No one was around to stop me.

vince
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ragtag
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Post by ragtag »

The form might be usefull for general feedback, but maybe it's a little long for people to fill out. It might also force people into having oppinions about parts of your work they may not have thought of at all when reading the comic (for good or bad?). It might also be a little difficult to make such detailed information usefull.

When askin for critique for mye work I generally follow a few simple rules.
1. I must be ready to present the work in the state it is in (finished or work in progress), during some parts of the creative process I resent getting feedback or having anyone look at my work at all.
2. I'm usually unsure about a few things, and use the feedback to clear those up, often by asking specific questions (not leading qustions).
3. I treat the feedback I get analytically, and try not to take it personally (no matter if it's good or bad). Analyzing it in relation to the work, the person giving the feedback, why they say what they say and how it can/cannot improve my work.
4. And finally I like to get a fresh point of view on the work. Sometimes people will point out things in your work that they like or dislike, that you never even gave a second thought.

Cheerz,

Ragnar
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Post by gazorenzoku »

this may not be pertinent, but I also wanted to say that sometimes when people tell you that they don't like something that you did, that might only make you like it even more.

in other words, sometimes you might draw or paint something a certain way for a certain reason (even if that reason is "i like to do it that way"), but you might not be too clear on what that reason is. When someone focuses on that element of your work, and explains why it "doesn't work", it might help clarify what you knew but didn't quite know about what you were trying to do in the first place. ...sometimes. Other times, it makes you want to cry, or get drunk and go to sleep...

anyhow, I am still all for the idea of the form you made, though I still haven't gotten around to really giving it a thorough look. Please forgive me! I will write back again...

vince
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Post by Guest »

On 2001-12-17 05:45, gazorenzoku wrote:
this may not be pertinent, but I also wanted to say that sometimes when people tell you that they don't like something that you did, that might only make you like it even more.
hm. sometimes. when I'm trying to do horror or something I guess I'd agree.
lol. that's over 50 procent of the time,.. Buut I think I'll try and make one of those autoforms, only then with a short form with questions like, which comic does this most remind you off & stuff like that. then make the grading functions optional.


at least I will make it, as soon as I've finished my commision, which is deadlined for tomorrow, sent my pesky comic to the publishers and stop being so damned excited about applying for that animation study.

life is good.
ashess
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Post by ashess »

bleeding'.

that wus me.
Image
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Post by gazorenzoku »

I think shorter is better, cause not a lot of people are going to go in depth. But of course there should be a way to let them go deeper if they want. Shouldn't every portion of the form be optional? If someone doesn't want to grade a certain thing, or answer a certain question, because they are pressed for time, or don't know the answer, or for whatever reason, and the computer throws one of those notices that they have to fill out this or that portion of the form, they may choose not to send it at all.

Short, easy to fill out, and maybe with a big comment section where they can write what they want. Also, there could be a little list of the kinds of things you would like to have them comment about, with a notice saying that they can of course say whatever they want...

Just some thoughts.

Hope you don't mind a critique of your critique sheet...

Vince
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ashess
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Post by ashess »

lol. course not. your right.
maybe I'll just make a short form for guests and a longer for other artists who would want their page critiqued right back.
:smile:) yeah. I think I'll do that.
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Post by gazorenzoku »

that sounds like a great idea
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