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King of Swing
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Joined: 27 Feb 2002
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Location: Ruhrpott, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aloha!

I'm pretty new at Online-Comics, but already one of the biggest fans!
Now I want to do some on my own! And I only wanted to ask if there are some Tutorials online for helping me toentrance that 'totally different World from all wellknown'...

Long live creativity! Odelelly!
Karsten
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Jack Masters
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After looking around for a while, I think it's safe to say there's a real derth of tutorials about that. It's a great idea though, and I think I might make one myself.

In the meantime, there are some quick and easy ways to enter a world very different from our own, most involving mind-altering drugs, dying, or reading a good book!

Since the worlds that can be reached by dying are hard to return from, and today's mind-altering drugs all have horrible downsides, reading a book is probably the best option.

As for CREATING a world very different from our own, I'd say knowing what kind of strangeness you like is a definate first step. Beyond that, I'd recommend messing around a lot.

Anyone else?

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Zubkavich
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Joined: 31 Aug 2001
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2002 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The link section on my website has some good links to go through:
http://miracle.keenspace.com/Links.html

I also have several turtorials available on drawing, Photoshop and other web comic subjects:
http://miracle.keenspace.com/Tutorials.html

Hope those help you out!

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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far from having any other links to point to at the moment, I'd just like to add that Jim Z's tutorials are excellent and worth a look.

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Alexander D.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Z -- Thanks for posting that link to your tutorials. They're very helpful. I'm pretty new to the intracasies of Photoshop, and while I usually pick up new software really quickly, I'm finding Photoshop far more difficult than most. Your tutorials really showed me a lot of possibilities.

I checked out Makeshift Miracle while I was there -- I loved it, as did my wife, so you've picked up two new fans in the bargain!

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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may also want to try Amalgamated Art Tutorials. They haven't been particularly great at updating regularly, but there are some really talented folks who have put things up there.

Doc.
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King of Swing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!
There's quite a lot! Thank you all!

Another question:
What programms do you use? I'm pretty used to photoshop, so that will be my choice, but what else can make a comic fit with the own imagination?

Karsten
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Alexander D.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not at all expert on art software, but I can say this -- backing it up with a good Web design is also really important, and for that there's nothing I'd recommend more than Dreamweaver. For years I was a big advocate of writing my HTML by hand. I hated Front Page, and Composer isn't really even worth mentioning.

However, I picked up Dreamweaver a few months ago and immediately fell in love with it. It writes much cleaner code than other wysiwyg editors, with good professional results. And it's surprisingly easy to learn too. From the moment I opened the first tutorial to the moment I finished my first Web page was only one week. You can see the results here: (My Wife's Quilt Store) I've finished two more Web sites since then, and the more I learn about Dreamweaver, the more I love it.

I have read some comments on Dreamweaver arguing that it's more than the average person needs -- it's got a lot of bells and whistles that aren't essential, so why confuse yourself with too many options. My response to that is this: the basics of Dreamweaver are really easy to learn, and quite a few of the advanced options aren't that much harder. So why close off any options when you may very well want to play and experiment with them later on?

Of course, the big obstacle to Dreamweaver is the price. But, of course, you can always get it cheaper by looking for a used copy on e-bay or half.com.

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[ This Message was edited by: Alexander D. on 2002-03-06 23:33 ]
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Tim Mallos
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Joined: 23 Apr 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy!

There is a great set of tutorials at PolyKarbon.com.

Tim
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King of Swing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, that's a great one!
A tutorial how to draw...

the biggest problem that I have drawing is, I know it sounds stupid, female brests. Don't think wrong, I'm talking about that clothed ones! I don't even dare to draw a naked one...
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Alexander D.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not stupid at all. I also have a really hard time drawing breasts, especially since I'm determined to draw them tastefully. I've actually wondered at times if part of the reason a lot of people draw such overly-endowed women isn't just wish-fulfillment, but because it's really a lot easier to do. Trying to get the lines just right to subtly imply realistic breasts, without making them look like they're trying to bust out is far more difficult.

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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of the old art history adage that the reason the old masters so often painted/drew/sculpted female nudes was because that collection of shapes is one of the most difficult things to reproduce in a realistic and simultaneously artistic manner. While it may be tempting to dismiss this as a bunch of dirty old men attempting to justify their predilections, any cursory review of super-hero comics art- especially 1990s era Image Comics art- bears this out as fact.

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Tim Mallos
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Joined: 23 Apr 2001
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Location: Brighton, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I hit the open life-drawing sessions in Ann Arbor when I can. Really depresses me to see what I do to the models when I try to put them on newsprint with charcoal.

We had a very thin, petite model one day. Her poses were awsome, but it was especially challenging to render her realistically because I couldn't just fluff over the muscle shapes and, yes, (gulp) her breasts with a bunch of curves.

By the way, I got a lot out of the scanning and coloring line art tutorials at PolyKarbon.

T

Edit: Had one of the sketches scanned already. She was so thin.


[ This Message was edited by: Tim Mallos on 2002-03-06 23:19 ]
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King of Swing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Puh!
And I thought I am the onlyone that's biggest problem isn't the hands...

Sometimes when I draw one breast and god only know why, but that first one really looks great I always am going crazy trying to draw the second one. I never get it that equal, that I want it to.
So, my "heros" are all men. That's my solution.

Karsten
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gazorenzoku
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Joined: 08 Nov 2001
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Location: Sapporo, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...you should do nudes. Practicing drawing nudes helps when you go to draw clothed figures. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that if you never practice nudes, you won't become successful at drawing clothed figures.

Drawing nudes can be intimidating, but it can also be fun. When I say intimidating, I don't mean getting freaked out over being in the same room as a naked person. I am talking about that irritation that comes when you can't draw it like you want. Especially when you look around the room and see that people younger than you are doing much better drawings!!! Alas, without this painful experience over and over again, you probably won't progress much... The good news is that all the pain pays off. Eventually, if you stick with it, you have no other option than to get good.

As a side note, it seems that most "good" artists (and by this I mean "realistically good") are just people who have dared to put in the extra time, effort, money, and pain into drawing from life. Thus, every budding artist is a potential "good" artist, if he or she just decides to put in the time. So you should never feel that you suck if you can't draw as good as you want. You are already a good artist, you just have to put in the time.

And pain. (when dealing with realism, there is no other way... you don't just "get good")

If there is no way for you to get into a nude model drawing class, then perhaps a family member or loved one wouldn't mind... though sitting without moving is pretty uncomfortable. Photos from porno magazines are good, as are weightlifting and fitness magazines. Buying male porno mags might be embarrasing if you're hetero, but if you really want to study the male nude figure... Luckily I have not had to resort to that yet.

Of course, if you don't care about devoting yourself to the persuit of life drawing, then don't worry about it... it's not for everybody... There are a lot of crazy things to experiment with nowadays anyhow...

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[ This Message was edited by: gazorenzoku on 2002-03-07 12:40 ]
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Tailsteak
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, first, I just want to thank Jim for the tutorial... I never knew about the Select-Contract function, and I just used it in my April Fool swap comic-- looks great, couldn't have done it without you.

Secondly, I'm just wondering if being a cartoonist and drawing in a simplified, stylized manner is in any way hampering my ability to draw things in real life. I can't draw nudes. I've tried, and I find it really difficult. Is this a result of being a cartoonist for so long?
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Alexander D.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tailsteak -- I'd be willing to bet that it's just lack of practice. If you were to devote the same time and energy to practice in realistic drawing, your skills would improve, just as they did in your cartoon drawing. And even in your cartoons, there hasn't been a human in your comic since Barnacle Jones died. I wouldn't think drawing characters like Junior and Terra is actually *hurting* your other drawing abilities -- but I doubt it's really doing anything to *help* either.

Of course, I'm still totally new to this, so I could be completely wrong.

For my part, I do my practicing using issues of Playboy for nudes, and Men's and Women's fashion magazines for clothed figures. I can't stress enough how helpful the fashion magazines were -- they provide a lot of different figures, most of them full body shots, in a wide variety of poses and outfits. For me, none of the excercises I've done have been as profitable as working from those photos.

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Jack Masters
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Occationally I try to draw semi-realistic things, but even really basic ones come out horribly disfigured, even when I'm using pencil&paper rather then a drawing tablet. Throughout my life, I've been diagnosed with dyslexia, autism, and all sorts of things, but I'm starting to think I may just have horrible dexterity. Which is certaintly not to say I couldn't get better with practice. But whatever the case, one should be careful not to assume everyone starts out on even footing, or even on the same landscape.

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[ This Message was edited by: Jack Masters on 2002-03-08 14:53 ]
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Tim Mallos
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Joined: 23 Apr 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that drawing from reality is more of a matter of learning how to see- developing the ability to take objects from our 3D world and think of them in terms of a 2D representation. Drawing, after all, is just lines, arcs, and shading, right? The hard part for me is training my brain to do the conversion from 3D to 2D so I can arrange my lines, arcs and shading in a way that let's others' brains reconstruct 3D from my 2D.

What am I babbeling about? The technique I was going to offer up was the brain-training I try to do when I'm out and about. If I'm stuck at a traffic light, I'll look around me and try to see things as I would render them in 2D. I've found it an effective way to practice drawing when I can't be drawing. I'm trying to apply this technique to watercolor painting too. I try to imagine what would be left the white of the paper, and what would be painted.

Just tossing this out for consideration.

Tim
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-08 15:18, Tim Mallos wrote:
I believe that drawing from reality is more of a matter of learning how to see.


This is absolutely true. Anybody who has ever asked me for advice on learning how to draw (it happens every so often) has heard me say that drawing is learning how to see. Even if you're looking directly at an object, you can't draw it unless you can see it in your head.

This is why people say that hands are among the most difficult things to draw even though they have two perfectly good examples right in front of them. People already know what a hand is and aren't paying enough attention to what it looks like. They have an idea that a hand is four fingers, a thumb, a palm and some knuckles when, in order to draw a hand (I feel that this is probably too simplistic and slightly off the mark), you need to be thinking of lines, curves, planes, shapes and shadows and how they will be arranged on the page.

Visualization is very important in order to maintain control in any kind of drawing- realistic or abstract. If you can't hold in your head the vision of what the drawing will be, then you can't possibly draw anything to look like what you want.

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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:19 pm    Post subject: Another Tutorial Reply with quote

Here's another tutorial online. This one is how Brian Bolland creates comic book covers using Photoshop. Check it out here: http://www.velouria.com/bolland/gk29/gk29.html
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King of Swing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Stephens wrote:
This is why people say that hands are among the most difficult things to draw even though they have two perfectly good examples right in front of them.


That's the reason for my bruest-problem!
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Tim Mallos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:27 am    Post subject: Great link Greg! Reply with quote

Edit: Great link Greg!

Thanks for sharing that one. Very cool to see the process. He gets a little vague near the end, wish he had the energy to give more detail on more of his photoshop technique. Although, that's his full-time job so I can't blame him for holding his cards close to his chest.

Edit: What does "Subject" do in the new board? It doesn't seem to show up with the post.

Greg edits: Answer here
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:53 pm    Post subject: Great set of tutorials Reply with quote

Wonderful tutorials here: http://www.dynamanga.net/ps/tutorial.html

BTW: I'm in the process of reorganizing my links pages and there'll be a section where I can compile all of these tutorial links.
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