Zwol.org

Greg Stephens · Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:52 pm Post subject:

This is going to be about a guy who posts on internet message boards a lot, isn't it?
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Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Nick Douglas · Guest

Does this mean the next installment will be "Opinionated Jeeves"? These are getting predictable, eh.

No offense to Saint McCloud, of course. By the way, nice redo on the quadrilateral's requitement.

Zem · Regular Poster Joined: 07 Apr 2002 Posts: 24

So, wait. Is this one going to be sketched out, then detailed each day? Or are you going to leave it in rough sketched form and then just add more panels every day?
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rgdoucette · Forum Member Joined: 07 Apr 2002 Posts: 2

Looking at the first few panerls of Uninformed Bob, I like the unformed (that's unformed not uninformed) work in progress look of it. One joy of reading on-line comics is learning how comic aritsts draw/create their art. Some letter and use the remaining space to add their artwork (Howard Tayler's Schlock Mercenary). Some hand draw everything. Other use computer graphics for the lettering but draw the rest. A few like Greg Dean's Real Life use Adobe Illustrator exclusively.

It appears that for Morning Improv Scott McCloud uses multiple techniques, but looking at For Meadow of the Damned and Uniformed Bob scripting comes first, maybe with full computer lettering, then sketches. After completing the drawings in pencil, I would guess they are inked, pencils erased and scanned. Final coloring is done by computer.

Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Actually, I feel confident that we'll all be a bit surprised by Uninformed Bob before it's over. Stay tuned.

Guest · Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2002 10:39 pm Post subject:

In panel 2, it looks like Bob's saying something slightly different in the lettered version than he is in the handwritten version (which is hard to see).
Like this:

Written: "Actually, there were two Elvis *something* Presley.
Lettered: "Actually, there were two Elvis Presleys, Timmy.

The lack of "Timmy" in the written one doesn't really change the meaning, but the fact that "Presley" is singular there seems like it might alter it.
Though, now that I look at it more closely, the *something* looks like it might be "Presley Elvis," making it "...there were two Elvis Presley Elvis Presley." So maybe it's just placeholder text Scott used to get the approximate spacing right before he chose the exact wording.

NatGertler · Regular Poster Joined: 15 Jun 2001 Posts: 44

Of course, now we get into the discussion of whether it should be "the 50s", "the '50s", or "the 50's"...

--Nat (proud to be living in the aughts!)

Greg Stephens · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 11:12 am Post subject:

Either of the first two is correct. The last one is absolutely wrong, but, sadly, you see it the most.

Edit: Allow me to amend that statement- If you mean to say "during the 1950s, everything was cool", then an apostrophe is wrong, wrong, wrong, because you are neither contracting nor possessing but if you mean to say "it's a 1950's diner," then you could be correct, since it could be reasonably said that the decade is still in possession of the establishment.
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Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Greg Stephens · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 1:32 pm Post subject:

Right and double-right!

Apostrophe usage is a pet peeve of mine, but I was typing faster than I can think. Uninformed, indeed- see the first post of this thread- oh, sweet irony!
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Nick Douglas · Guest

None of which answers the question, what about Elvis 3, the Elvis of the 7-11's (which takes an apostrophe for its plural, according to the AP Style Book I leaf through for fun -- I really need to get out more)? (And should that be a period, as it follows a somewhat rhetorical question? Should I ask rhetorical question man, or would he be unable to answer due to his very nature?)

Oh, dear, Mr. McCloud, you've got me thinking hard. You tend to have that effect.... (Yep, use four periods for a sentence-ending ellipsis. Okay. I'm done. I swear.)

Guest · Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2002 7:12 pm Post subject:

Actually, the use of the "plural apostrophe" is proper on single letters and on numbers. A good example of that is the ol' Oakland A's, which were not the Oakland As.

You can see this usage documented on these sites:
http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/maplewoods/writeplace/apostrophes.html
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutspelling/pizza

This site suggests that it is right for single digits but not for years:
http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/apostrophe.htm

It seems to me that the usage is growing less common on years, but it is a traditional usage and I would not consider it completely archaic yet. (But I do think we need the leading apostrophe on the '50s, at the very least!)

Scott McCloud · Making "Making Comics" Joined: 23 May 2001 Posts: 299

Guest · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:18 pm Post subject:

As a Point of Information, "The world used to be Black and White" is an old Calvin & Hobbes gag

Guest · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:32 pm Post subject:

I always heard it as a common childhood misconception. Like Mount Rushmore being a natural formation.

Did C & H include the Oz stuff too? I don't recall that one.

Guest · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:42 pm Post subject:

Thankfully, most comic strips in the newspaper today aren't as repetitive as Uninformed Bob (although I can think of a few that are--Blondie, Andy Capp, Rex Morgan MD, etc.)

<p>

Guest · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:44 pm Post subject:

Boo to zwol for splitting my post! As I was saying, in many cases, the original creator of the strip died or was fired, and a team of starvin' artists and bad writers took over.

Aris Katsaris · Forum Member Joined: 03 Apr 2002 Posts: 11

Lemon Aid · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 2:54 pm Post subject:

Aris Katsaris · Forum Member Joined: 03 Apr 2002 Posts: 11

Scott's keeping the same ending panel, so I wonder if he takes it further and to save space and loading time further he starts reusing a single pic for the bottom half of the first three panels too... Though that'd be rather silly, wouldnt' it...

Alexander D. · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:23 pm Post subject:

Alexander D. · Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:27 pm Post subject:

NatGertler · Regular Poster Joined: 15 Jun 2001 Posts: 44

I think we have to be wary of using the term "official" with any grammar text. The OED does not dictate language; language dictates the OED. And the Chicago Manual of Style is just that -- it aims to dictate a single style, which is helpful when you're trying to simplify arguments or maintain a standard style across multiple authors. By meeting that style, you may be guaranteed to be grammatically correct, but that does not mean that to violate that style is to be grammatically incorrect.

(One of the web pages I was looking at says that you should have the apostrope when pluralizing a lower-case letter or abbreviation, but not an upper-case one. That's because "Those guys are DDSs" is clear, but "Be sure to dot your is" is not.)