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Jimmy Ho
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Not quite) OFF-TOPIC: Scott's site seems to be down right now. Does anybody else have problems accessing it (I'm on ADSL)?
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Scott McCloud
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Joined: 23 May 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's back up. Must have just been a tempoary glitch at Boiling Point. Jonah's pretty good about getting such things fixed quickly when they happen (which is rarely).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bjorn wrote:
Oooh, I don't know. I wonder what mr. Bush did 'accidentally' :p


It's just so obvious...

He ACCIDENTALLY found saddam down a hole!
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Jimmy Ho
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott McCloud wrote:
It's back up. Must have just been a tempoary glitch at Boiling Point. Jonah's pretty good about getting such things fixed quickly when they happen (which is rarely).


Indeed. I just checked in, and everything is alright now. Thank you.

By the way, hi, Scott! We had a brief email exchange (about the ready.gov parody trend) back in February.
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Jimmy Ho
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I may add something, I basically agree with your latest entry (except that I can't be "happy" to see the Convention of Geneva being violated so deliberately nor to hear people taking a death sentence for granted before the modalities of the trial have even been determined), but I'd like to mention a text that, thus far, really expressed the closest to my own feeling about the whole news: it is this post by Jeanne at Body and Soul.

Sorry if this is too much off topic.

(By the way, it would be really great to have permalinks for your MI page posts, since many of your "blog" entries are really thoughtful and deserve to be made easier to refer to; the MI frontpage is more than a list of links, or what Hyung Sun Kim recently started calling a "linkblog").

[Edited to add some moderation; I'd have a lot more to say (like about why there's no trial for Saddam's Western acomplices), but I'd rather stay outside the debate.]


Last edited by Jimmy Ho on Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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zerofoks
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmy Ho wrote:
(By the way, it would be really great to have permalinks for your MI page posts, since many of your "blog" entries are really thoughtful and deserve to be made easier to refer to; the MI frontpage is more than a list of links, or what Hyung Sun Kim recently started calling a "linkblog").


I concur.
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Cyborg Caveman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in college I tripped, fell, and ACCIDENTALLY landed my nose in a big pile of cocaine?
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Christopher Lundgren
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow that just reminded me of a Mad TV sketch (in the days when the show was still relatively fresh) where a guy wakes up from a drunken stupor to realize that while he was blacked out, he ran for president and won -- and not only won but had gone on to become the greatest leader in US history, solving the majority of the world's most pressing issues with his in-your-face attitude.

Maybe G. Dubbuya saw that episode and thought it was a documentary.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott McCloud wrote:
Oh, like you don't know what's coming next...


The Accidental Prostitute?
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zerofoks
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who thinks it is funny that Bill looks happier in panel 8 than in panel 1?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott, you've been out on the Left Coast too long (though coming from the People's Republic of Taxachusetts, that shouldn't be much of a switch), or you've been hanging out with Garry Trudeau?

If it wasn't for the so called "Accidental President", ol' Saddam wouldn't have been hiding in a hole, the other day; he'd still be maxin' and relaxin' in one of his many phat cribs, watching torture videos, instead. Thanks to the "Accidental President", I sleep better at night.

Remember, my friends: Churchill was right. Chamberlain was wrong.

Thus endeth today's lesson.

PS The election was kosher, people. Get over it and move on.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That last post was mine. Damn it, got logged out without seeing it again. It's a left-wing conspiracy I bet.
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Kris Lachowski
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Joined: 06 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
Thanks to the "Accidental President", I sleep better at night.


Yeah I know what you mean. I was ever so frightened that Saddam would sneak into my house at night and kill me.
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gareis
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
PS The election was kosher, people. Get over it and move on.


People don't understand the purpose of the electoral college. It gives rural areas and less populous states a fair role in choosing the President. Without it, Montana and Alaska would be powerless, dominated by California and the East Coast.

The United States is structured as a government ruling governments. Therefore the popular vote is less important than the states' votes. However, the federal government has always taken too much power. It's a government, for goodness' sake; of course it takes too much power.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Ripster wrote:
PS The election was kosher, people. Get over it and move on.

Yeah, I'll reply to this, too. Of course the election was kosher, at least by the letter of the law (which is not really an "at least" term- the fact is, that's a pretty big thing). We have a system which is designed to work in order to transfer power from one administration to another in a peaceful manner without all the need for bloody revolution. Mostly it seems to work pretty well, even when it's a big jumbled mess like the 2000 election. A lot of people may be unhappy with the result, but there's another election coming in 2004 and one after that and... And so on.

But I will take issue with the "get over it" part of your statement. One's dog dying is the sort of event that one could safely be advised to get over and move on from, but the confusion and nasty legal tangle that finished out that particular election is something that we'd better learn from and use the experience to make the system even better than it is. Not that a lot of the anger directed at the Bush clan for the election isn't misplaced, but that energy could be better spent making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

However, I certainly don't think the occasional pot-shot is out of the question, considering that Bush did lose the popular vote and was only declared the winner after weeks of legal action from both sides. Scott's not generally political in this fashion in his comics, so having a cartoon of G.W.B. saying he "sort of" got elected doesn't seem like too big a deal.
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Scott McCloud
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, I don't think Bush "stole" the election any more than Gore would have if roles had been reversed. It was just a freakishly close contest in which lawyers and judges and family connections won the coin flip.

To Rip: Thank you for staying and enduring this little detour. Many people who agree with you will, I assume, just leave and never come back.

I hadn't planned to go political with this strip. It's just the only idea that popped into my head beyond the one note premise. Obviously, it's particularly clumsy timing on my part in light of Sunday's news, but it didn't seem right to back away just because it might lose even more readers.

And yes, I'm glad they caught the bastard.

I doubt the tens of thousands of little Osama Bin Ladens we've created in the last year will care, that's all. One spider squashed while, thanks to us, more eggs are being laid than ever.
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved a couple of relevant posts over to the Political Compass thread. They have not been deleted!
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Last edited by Greg Stephens on Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IronSpike
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
PS The election was kosher, people. Get over it and move on.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:16 pm    Post subject: Totally agree with you, Scott Reply with quote

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. Don't attack him for his.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course we've all got a right to an opinion. But if you put forth an opinion, others have the right to critisize, or take issue with certain statements. I'm not trying to attack Scott, just trying to point out to him his misguided views. First, I was assuming that statements made by the "Accidental President" reflect Scott's own political beliefs. I still do, unless Scott says otherwise.

It wasn't so much the election part I took issue with. Hey, if Gore had won, I'm sure I'd still be saying that he stole the election. There was a lot of mishigas going down in Florida, on both sides (but cleary much more by the Dems ), back then. More, it was the other statements, which I don't believe are in anyway true, that sort of irked me.

I DON'T believe this administration has done ANYTHING to harm the Bill of Rights, at least anything that hasn't been done by every other previous administration. If you actually read the patriot act, it not as grim as people make it sound.

I DON'T believe we've pissed of every friend we've ever had. We pissed of some countries who have never really been our friends to begin with. I don't think anybody around the world hates America anymore than they already did before Bush took office.

I DON'T think we've de-stabilized the Middle-East for decades to come. How can you de-stabilize something that never was stable to begin with? Really, it's too early to tell what effect the wars in Afghanastan and Iraq will have on Middle-East. Bottom line is the sons of the prophet are out of control, and they need to bopped on the head when they are so.

Don't worry, I'm not gonna run away from M.I. just because of little Bush bashing. Hey, everybody's doing it. Lampooning the President in an American tradition. I just feel if you accuse somebody of certain actions, than somebody has to speak up, and defend and denounce those accusations.

Actually, I see my lessons are already taking hold. Scott is becoming more conservative already. He shrunk the image size of the panels.
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Scott McCloud
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a slow writer with a sore wrist battling deadlines, I'm not going to make a very robust debating partner, Rip. Sorry about that.

If anyone else wants to get into a point-by-point on these though, let's definitely keep it civil, okay? I think it's cool of Rip to stick around after this. I'd like to encourage both sides to feel like they'll get a fair hearing on this thread.

One of the most recent examples of "pissing off friends" was our refusal to let any country that didn't tow the line bid on the reconstruction contracts (alienating such long-time Axis-of-Evil terrorist cells as Canada and Germany). America has adopted a policy of punishing anyone that disagrees with us, and I'd hate to reflect that policy here.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a mashochist, Scott. I love to read comics that make me mad. I read Doonsbury, and scream and yell about how Garry Trudeau is a "stinkin' commie!" and a "useless Bolshevik!" I like to read Dilbert and Cathy, and scream and yell about the piss poor drawing, and compositions skills displayed therein. Then I read something hokey and wholesome, like Family Circus, the patriotic Gassoline Alley, and Peanuts from the grave; and I feel better.

Oh, and my scolding comments weren't just aimed at Scott, but all you lefties out there, who are still confused and befuddled. Don't worry, someday, you'll all understand, and come over to the Right side of The Force. It is...YOU'RE DESTINY!

No, I don't hate liberals, I just want edjumicate 'em. My grandfather was a died in the wool Bolshevik from 1917.

As for the Canadians, everybody bickers with the neighbors now and then. They are pack of libs, but we won't hold that against them.

As for the Germans...don't get me started (that goes for the French and the Russians, too)
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your grandfather was a Bolshevik, he probably didn't like being called a liberal much, eh?

I always find it interesting how in USian political discourse, there are, like, all kinds of right wing you can be, but everything left of centre gets collapsed into "liberal". And that's hardly accurate, given that classical liberalism is a rather conservative political ideology.

I'm talking out my ass here, but I'd guess that's probably related to the politics of the Cold War on the domestic front. Lots of socialists and dem socs dressing up as welfare state liberals to avoid being painted red. Plus, the liberal/libertarian belief that government has no role in people's private lives has propped the label up as a bugaboo of social conservatives, even when it isn't an appropriate description of someone's whole political philosophy.
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zerofoks
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:

As for the Germans...don't get me started


As long as you can restrict yourself to aforementioned civility, please be my guest!
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