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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous Fat Head wrote:
[T]he French are heartless.


Hardly.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please tell me your joking, Greg.

Inventing French kissing means you have heart? Puleez! All that proves is that the French are sex crazed. It has nothing to do with heart.

Heart means you don't surrender your own country to the Nazis after a mere six weeks of fighting. Heart means you don't turn your Jewish neighbors in to the Nazis, so they can be taken to concentration camps to be slaughtered. Heart means you don't support a murderous dictator, like Saddam, so you can benifit from cheap oil. Heart means you don't let Muslim immigrants in your country commit anti-Semitic crimes against your Jewish citizens with impunity. Heart means you don't do everything in your power to to impede an a long time ally (who once sent it sons to die on your beaches so your worthless and ungrateful country could be liberated) from dealing with rouge nations that support terrorists, after that ally was attacked by said terrorists.

Oh, and as for this claim that the invasion was unprevoked; read up on the some 14 UN resolutions that Saddam ignored. Remember, the U.S. was prepared to invade Iraq as early as January, but put off a favorable winter invasion, and bent over backwards to make the international community happy, and gave Saddam almost three extra months to comply, which he never had any intention to do so in the first place.

Getting back to today's Improv , is it an accident that the protesting star bucket cat is colored red ?
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Greg Stephens
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
Please tell me your joking, Greg.

I get tired of debating rhetoric with facts, sometimes, so, yes, that was meant as humorous. Besides, I never claimed that the French "invented" (as you say) what we call "French Kissing." That would be ludicrous! (Like Al Gore inventing the internet.)

Speaking of rhetoric vs. facts:
Ripster wrote:
Heart means you don't surrender your own country to the Nazis after a mere six weeks of fighting. Heart means you don't turn your Jewish neighbors in to the Nazis, so they can be taken to concentration camps to be slaughtered.

Yes, some French made some poor choices with terrible consequences but those people are not the ones who ultimately took power after the War. That duty was taken by the Free French who, I'm sure you must agree, had a great deal of heart.

Rip wrote:
Heart means you don't support a murderous dictator, like Saddam, so you can benifit from cheap oil.

As the US did, once upon a time?

Rip wrote:
Heart means you don't let Muslim immigrants in your country commit anti-Semitic crimes against your Jewish citizens with impunity.

Sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to here, but impunity? I doubt that's so. Provide some specific references and I'll provide some in return. Are you referring to current events?

Rip wrote:
Heart means you don't do everything in your power to to impede an a long time ally (who once sent it sons to die on your beaches so your worthless and ungrateful country could be liberated) from dealing with rouge nations that support terrorists, after that ally was attacked by said terrorists.

Sometimes "heart" means standing up to your friends when you believe that your friends are wrong. (And, really, what's the big deal with WWII anyhow? Why not go all the way back to the French role in the American Revolution?) Yeah, this is a rhetorical reply but the facts are not in dispute.

Rip wrote:
Oh, and as for this claim that the invasion was unprevoked; read up on the some 14 UN resolutions that Saddam ignored. Remember, the U.S. was prepared to invade Iraq as early as January, but put off a favorable winter invasion, and bent over backwards to make the international community happy, and gave Saddam almost three extra months to comply, which he never had any intention to do so in the first place.

Correct- "unprovoked" is the wrong word to use in this case. But you are incorrect about the "bent over backwards" bit, because that implies that the U.S. actually succeeded in making the international community happy, which isn't the case.
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Surlyben
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez Rip, I wonder how you feel about those rotten Belgians... Do you even know anything at all about WWII? I hate the French as much as anyone, but it's not like the Germans just showed up at the French border and the French said "Zut, alors! we surrender!". No, they got their butts well and truly kicked by the Germans (just like everyone else did in 1940). You might be able to quibble about whether the surrender was a few days premature, but there's no question that the surrender was the only choice.

Heart means you don't surrender your own country to the Nazis after a mere six weeks of fighting. [...Godwin... I have no idea why I am responding to a dead thread...] Heart means you don't support a murderous dictator, like Saddam, so you can benifit from cheap oil.

I guess this means that the Iraqis who surrendered to invading US forces have no heart. It doesn't really say good things about how much heart Reagan and Bush Sr had (Carter too, for that matter...)

...sons to die on your beaches so your worthless and ungrateful country could be liberated...

Marquis de Lafayette. But aside from that, I was always under the impression that liberating france in WWII (and WWI too) was a happy side effect of our main goal, which was, of course, to defeat Germany.

rouge nations that support terrorists, after that ally was attacked by said terrorists.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg stephens wrote:
Correct- "unprovoked" is the wrong word to use in this case. But you are incorrect about the "bent over backwards" bit, because that implies that the U.S. actually succeeded in making the international community happy, which isn't the case.


Um, actually, no. If the argument is that he violated UN resolutions, then that's a provocation of the UN, not a provocation of us. Meaning it's the UN's business, not ours, to act on that provocation.

Ask 99.99% of the Right Wing in this country what the provocation was for the invasion of Iraq, and they'll say "9/11". Which is patently ridiculous, because Hussein has about as much to do with bin Laden as cats have to do with clams.

Chris Burdick
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
Heart means you don't surrender your own country to the Nazis after a mere six weeks of fighting. Heart means you don't turn your Jewish neighbors in to the Nazis, so they can be taken to concentration camps to be slaughtered.


Hrrrm... does it also mean not slaughtering indigenous peoples, infecting them with smallpox and stealing their land? Not hanging your own people as "witches"? Not kidnapping human beings from foreign lands and enslaving them? Not shipping your own citizens off to internment camps because they happen to look like the enemy you're fighting? Not dropping NUCLEAR WEAPONS on TWO WHOLE CITIES full of women, children, old people and countless other non-combatants?

If we're going to compare histories, atrocity-by-atrocity, the French have NOTHING on us.

Chris
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That anonymous guy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject: Cats and clams Reply with quote

xxxtatic2000 wrote:
Which is patently ridiculous, because Hussein has about as much to do with bin Laden as cats have to do with clams.


Mmmm... bucketful of clams...
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Yon Anonymous Entitiy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:04 pm    Post subject: I predict... Reply with quote

...that this one ends with the Heart Bucket Kittens tearing off John Ashcroft's head...
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simrob
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Connor Moran wrote:
Second, you may call it "propaganda," but the exaggeration of certain ideas to their logical extremes as a means of political commentary is a time-honored tradition. We call it "satire" and it's a very respectable form of art. Whether you happen to agree or not.


Hmm... this is the first time I've posted since way bag in "Uninformed Bob" when I mentioned how death-themed all the comics were getting... the good old days...

While satire is a time-honored tradition, I do question whether it's what is needed right now. As this board is showing, certain people are claiming they will be completely ignoring each other from now on - part of this seems a result of individual immaturity, but this hostility did spawn from a satirical political statement...

I think the political situation in the United States is probably more polarized than it has been in a long time, and people on both sides tend to be forcefully, confidentaly sure of the correctness of their viewpoints. Cleary this is a time when humor is a good thing - I question whether in the grand scheme of things this is a time when satire is a good thing...
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DavidMcG
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rip Tanion wrote:
Actually, this little kiddie kittie story is perfect, since so many liberals view this complex world the same as an ignorant, simple child would. :P
Ha ha! Yes, exactly!
Liberals and conservatives alike!

But whether or not I agree with the the philosophy behind this story, I think it'll piss off some people, which makes it instant comedy gold!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:48 pm    Post subject: Political it is... Reply with quote

Ye gods? it is easy to tell that this comic is very political (of course, I could just be the unknowing test subject of a Scott McCloud Rorschach test...). HOWEVER?

Concerning America, it is a good country, and it does have a large number of characteristics that COULD make it the best country in the world. There is much hatred and anger in this counrty, as well, not to mention wars that we seem to love fighting, whether or not our allies think it is a good idea?

If you truly loved America, you would search for it's numerous faults, and work to correct them. Not use a pile of kittens to destroy other countries. Because they might have rocks...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the other buckets each contain kittens of only one color, the Star bucket is apparently diverse. There even seems to be Star Kittens of Heart and Crescent heritage.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man oh man oh Manischewitz did I got a lot of responses to my response. I original felt the responsiblity to respond to said reponces, until I realized I'd have to respond by writing a book to set my detractors straight. My fingers just aren't that nimble. So, instead, let me just say to all those who disagree with me...I'm right and you are wrong [Bronx cheer]. 'Nuff said. Go stick your head in a bucket of water three times and take it out twice.

Or, maybe, I'll just post my responses up on my web site one day, so you can all read them and curse my name.

Don't worry, you'll all be rounded up and taken to my re-education classes once I sieze power, anyway. To quote Dadsasnanmamhah, "Mwah ha ha ha ha"

Now that that's out of the way...
Those uncooperative, heart bucket pussies best watch out, or they're gonna get such a zetz, next, no matter how much that commie-red kittie protests.

GO STAR BUCKETEERS!
Them cats need a spaceship.
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Aris Katsaris
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Heart means you don't do everything in your power to to impede an a long time ally (who once sent it sons to die on your beaches so your worthless and ungrateful country could be liberated) from dealing with rouge nations that support terrorists, after that ally was attacked by said terrorists.


In that case, ooh, wouldn't "heart" also mean that US wouldn't have supported the evil dictators that took over Greece in 1967, after Greece sent its sons to die in Korea, a war Greece had no reason to join other that
we were America's allies? Wouldn't *that* count as America being "worthless" and "ungrateful"? Greek dictators had torture chambers too, you know.

You know people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones. That's what many people despise about some Americans -- not their actual deeds taken by themselves but their unwavering *arrogance* and their huge *hypocricy* in thinking themselves better than other nations.

So far it's only people like you that have called other nations "worthless" and his own nation the best of them all. No single European I've talked to has ever reached that level of arrogance and pretended his own country to be pristine, as you seem to be doing.

Some people in Europe (e.g. Greeks or Cypriots) have already taken the dagger of American ingratitude in our backs, far sharper and more bitter than any French or German ingratitude has been felt by the Americans.

------

And to forestall certain objection you are sure to raise, yeah Greece has done some pretty bad things and supported some pretty bad people itself -- difference between us is that I never called it the best nation in the world, or among the top ten or even top twenty best nations in the world. In fact it's probably just as bad as America has been.
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Rip Tanion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aris Katsaris wrote:
You know people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones.
No, but they should own plenty of Windex.

I love the Greeks. Who else gives you a better deal on a Burger Deluxe? (Certainly not the French. They'll empty your wallet for a plate of snails - yecch!)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: my country tis of thee Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
If the Star Bucket is the United States, the Crescent Bucket is the Muslim world, and the rock hitting the bucket is 9/11, who is the Heart Bucket? Europe? England in particular?


well, i thought at first that canada was the heart bucket. a combination of the proximity to the star bucket and my own cultural egoism. but i have since realized that i must be mistaken. if it was canada, the heart bucket would have kittens of many colors. also, it might be bigger than the star bucket (while still having fewer/smaller kittens) as my homeland is freakin' huge, and yet sparsely populated.

go look for the song "canada's really big" by the arrogant worms. because it isn't what you do with it, it's the size that counts.

so. it's prolly france. all that crazy renaming of things francais is begging for parody. i mean, freedom kissing? come on, now. give credit where it's due.

-sundre

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l? Anonymous Coward
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: "You fallen into my trap! You 'heroes' are so predictab Reply with quote

You know, for all intents and purposes, Scott might not actually be taking this particular Improv seriously. For all you know, he might just be winding up everybody, and trying to get the more contentious members of this particular thread riled up for no particular reason other than his sadistic amusement.

Oh, yeah. Just because he's nice fluffy-bunny of a guy in his comics and in real life doesn't mean he can't get his yuks from callously and fiendishly manipulating the beliefs and politics his readers and colleagues. Mean-spirited evil and misanthropy isn't limited to people like Gabe and Tycho or RK Millholland, you know. I mean, for crying out loud, he's a father of two rather intelligent and creative children. He wouldn't have stayed in power without learning some deviousness, you know.

For all you know, he's probably stroking his doggy, Wuffles and laughing like Dr. Evil, while you yahoos tear each other up like felines sprayed with catnip inside a burlap bag, while looking like utter nitwits in the process.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if the heart buckets were canadian, they'd be drinking beer, smoking weed, and wearing tooks.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That'd be awesome if Scott really did have a dog named "Wuffles."

I think Wuffles should star in his own Morning Improv.
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Doc MacDougal
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: O Heart Bucket! Our home and native bucket Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
well, i thought at first that canada was the heart bucket. a combination of the proximity to the star bucket and my own cultural egoism. but i have since realized that i must be mistaken. if it was canada, the heart bucket would have kittens of many colors. also, it might be bigger than the star bucket (while still having fewer/smaller kittens) as my homeland is freakin' huge, and yet sparsely populated.


I thought it was Canada as well -- because the "you're our best friends" line is, like, every Canadian politician and media outlet ever.
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DavidMcG
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: "You fallen into my trap! You 'heroes' are so predi Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
You know, for all intents and purposes, Scott might not actually be taking this particular Improv seriously.
I thought that was obvious.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: 1812. Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
if the heart buckets were canadian, they'd be drinking beer, smoking weed, and wearing tooks.


well, that too i suppose. although secretly in their little kittenish hearts they would be all quietly glad that they weren't starbucketeers. we're friendly, not stupid. the sucking up is a survival trait.

i kid. i've got too many relatives in the states to be anti-american. i's also like to think i have too much sense. but there's a reason laura secord has a heritage minute, and it has nothing to do with chocolate.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just figured Heart Bucket collectively represented everyone Star Bucket is friends with. Or was friends with. Used to be friends with. I gotta wonder how long that heart will stay on the bucket now, though. And how long it'll take for one of the Star Bucket kittens to declare Heart Bucket a member of the Axis of Evil.

Has anyone else noticed that all the kittens of every other bucket are the same color, while the Star Bucket kittens are multicolored? Wonder if that'll be important, later....
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This can't be a political allegory. If it were there would be more than one dissenting Star bucket kitten.

What this is actually talking about is the effects of globilization and the free market on peanut farmers in the 1960's. You gotta dig deep sometimes.
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