Inventivity and Genres

[InkAddict]

A few days ago, I started a discussion with my mom:
She hates Sci-Fi, while I love it.

Actually I noticed that she considered Sci-Fi a genre in itself, while I consider it more like a setting, unless it delivers an important plot element (as in H.G.Wells' "The Time Machine").

When Scott McCloud asks for a more diverse offering of genres, it's quite interesting to see, he takes the "genre" principle as a whole.

I myself am now subdividing the idea of a genre, and have found it to be an extremely rich and fertile way of getting ideas, especially when it comes to inventing a different setting.

Actually I split it into 5 categories:

--------------------------------------------Location in Time
When does it happen?
--------------------------------------------Location in Space
Where does it happen?
--------------------------------------------Society
How does the world function?
--------------------------------------------Main Themes
Plot elements? Loose story lines?
--------------------------------------------Mood
Atmosphere of the story?


An example:
Oliver Twist:
---Location in Time:
19th century
--- Location in Space:
London streets
---Society:
The poor often steal to survive; orphaned children are manipulated by criminals
---Main Themes:
Orphan turns to crime...... finds lost family...turns away from crime...
---Mood:
Sombre, but with a Happy Ending

Now when I work the other way round, I get some really original ideas:

an example:
---Location in Time:
I like knights, sooooo...Medieval times!
--- Location in Space:
Somewhere in Early France (got some info about a region), In a castle
---Society:
Feodality, with Troubadours crossing the country and the like and a fear of Demons which surpasses all logic thought
---Main Themes:
A demon possesses the Lord of the castle, who WAS a notorious madman before/ His daughter falls in love with a troubadour come to challenge the Lor, aided by his troupe, and contacts a rebellious group of farmers. Actually he's the Lord's son, and has to kill him to become Lord himself. (a rewriting of some StarWars Elements)
---Mood:
It could be very dark, but the tyroubadour gives me some very nice possibilities to have fun, so I'm making it a Black Comedy!

...Now all I have to do is flesh out the characters and add some subplots to explain their psychologies, and ... Tadaaaaaa!

A quite funny tale about a clumsy troubadour falling in love with a girl he doesn't know is his sister, and having to chase the almighty demon that possesses her Father. (I might add a storyline to make her a real bitch, while a girl from the resistance falls in love with him, which should give sparks and such )
I actually work like this, because Scott's "story machine" may work fine, but it has one flaw: it makes me invent stories I'm not able to draw myself.

This way I've got a reasonable control over the story I'm creating, without always going down trodden paths.

Do any of you have similar techniques?

(apart from Scott's story machine, which might still help me in finding themes and such)

[Jack Masters]

That's a neat way of subdividing things!

My own comic would go something like this:

--- Location in Time
The earliest time accessable through time-travel
--- Location in Space
Near where the time machine will eventually be built; world has no discernable landmarks as of yet
--- Society
A handful of mysterious people co-exist without a great deal of friction
--- Main Themes
Hmm... I should probably have one of these thingies....
--- Mood
Mildly amusing explorations



Often when I can't decide on a course of artistic action, I write down a list of all the options I can think of, pare it down to the good ideas and pick randomly between them. I have a large spreadsheet full of nonsensical tables like this, most of which I use only once.

Actually, I find that I've come to use pure randomness more and more as time goes on. Nearly all the artwork I've made in the past few weeks has had random elements. Sometimes a whole maze with each room and hallway randomly connected, sometimes just a fairly normal abstract drawing where I randomly choose what direction is "up". But all in all, I think randomness is a valuble tool, and that everybody should give it a try. This is only tangentially related to inventivity and genres, but you could certaintly pick your setting, time period, society and so on randomly.
If you picked randomly only from a list of choices you'd like to do a comic about, you might even end up with something worth your while!

[InkAddict]

Actually I thought of this system because i AM pure randomness as a person, so it narrows me down at least a little. I constantly come up with ideas I can't manage myself.

As an example: about 6 years ago, I came up with the idea of people linked to a computer, living in a complete sensory coherent environment, created by themselves. Only all people lived only in their dreams and their dreamworlds interfered with eachother, a little like overlapping circles do. In real life, they were like corpses chained by tubes and chords to this enormous machine called "The Mother".

I know, it sounds a lot like some comics and movies that have become popular over the last four years... only I'd start my scenario with a huuuuuuuuge gaping hole filled with electronic coffins, a different body in each. ... or I'd think up this post-apocalyptic society surviving in the underground of large cities and going from one to another, by subway train, only I HATED drawing trains or cars, so work never took off!

This way I have the opportunity to limit my sources and documentation to things I can handle, while still being able to try things out!

Otherwise things get soooo crowded in my head I have to start over with a blank page and a simplified version of my original idea

[Merlin]

Big story ideas are fun to come up with but, yeah, often too impractical to actually think of following up on. Especially when it comes to working out how I'm going to go about illustrating my ideas. Most of my stories that actually make it to the screen usually stem from something like "Hmm... I've got all these pictures of penguins. Guess I should probably do something with them... Oh, I know..."

[sandy carruthers`]

This is a cool thread.
I like your 'formula' for fleshing out the bones of a story. Perhaps we could do it with characters/voices as well? All stories need strong developed characters to create an interest.
Let's see...
--- Location in Time
The time of Fuedal Japan
--- Location in Space
Clan leaders house
--- Society
A time when women are considered second rate beings, at the whim of men. Brutally treated
--- Main Character (new)
A enslaved girl named(name here) who only dreams of escaping and returning home
--- Mood
Sombre, but determined to rise above it all
Cool. You could do character sheets on both pro- and antagonists. Develop motive/change(if required) and correspond it with the subdivision of the storyline.
cool!

[InkAddict]

Cool addition! I especially like the idea of different worldviews and outlooks confronting each other. (1st-century Rome may be a barbaric place to one person, while it may be a world turning around personal pleasure to another, for instance)

When fleshing out characters, it can be very fune and useful to use the lists you get with some role-playing games: psychological flaws and traits can really add depth to your character. One of my dreams is to turn one of my RPG's (I mastered and created the complete story) in a comic. The depth I created/chose for my non-playing characters were extremely rich, especially as I added new traits every time I played them, and left out those that were too unreal or annoying. Don't flip dice, however, as you will always get extremely unrealistic characters.

I noticed while playing the aforementioned RPG, that it's much more realistic to create a past you direct in a certain sense, than to create a complete psychology, and having to invent a story to explain it all. (in a certain sense... think Bruce Wayne BEFORE he was Batman, rather than trying to discover who Bruce Wayne is, under that cape 'n mask! )

[ragtag]

Here is a method I learned at a screen writing course a while ago is quit cool for fleshing out characters, as well as keeping track of complex stories. Though it is a lot of work.

When you've got the basic idea of who are the main characters and what's going to happen. You grab an art pad (a big one is best), and make one column for each character, as well as one column for what's happening in the world that might affect them. The vertical axis is the time, the order in which things happen (not exact days/hours/min).

Now in each characters column write in what they are doing from THEIR POINT OF VIEW at each time. This way you know why each character is doing or saying what they say in each scene, you have their motiv and you know where they are coming from. And you also get to write out what is happening with characters who are not the focus of the story at that time (while the murder was happening, where was Joey).

Once you've written out all this (it may take quite a few pages), you can go through it and mark of the scenes you plan to include in the story. Often, stuff will have shown up that you want to include, which was not in the original plan. You can then order the scenes (it's not certain you want the chronologically in the comic) and write/draw them.

As I said, it takes a lot of time as you will be writing much more than what's included in the final story. Though it can be worth it when to it comes to fleshing out the script, and the process in itself can be quite fun. It is, of course, possible to use a computer instead of an art pad...I guess a spread sheet kind of software would be good for this.

---

As for using role-playing games to generate characters. Find one with lots of personality traits (GURPS is a good example). Also remember that each personality trait isn't just that. Say you have a character that is a kleptomaniac, then try to figure out what kind of kleptomaniac he is and how he feels about it. Maybe he is blissfully ignorant of that he is doing anything wrong or deeply ashamed of his stealing, but he just can't help it. Maybe he only likes to steal bicycles or cutlery or whatever. And why does he steal.

---

The list of Location in Time and Space, Society, Themes and Mood looks like a good starting point for an idea. Heck, for those who like random stuff, it wouldn't be too hard to write a little software that created random selections for this kind of stuff from a long list (don't look at me, I lack a programming language for this kind of stuff right now ).

Ragnar

[Tailsteak]

Some stories can't be pinned down in time and space. 1/0, for example, has no real time or location. The project I have waiting in the wings has no genre, as it is actually 8 stories in one.

[sandy carruthers]

Hey Tailsteak, Categorization is not a bad thing, in particular when it comes to fleshing out the intrigate details of a story. I think its immensely helpful. The trick of course, is to take these lists, put it all together, and make it all look natural. Some writers(Ray Bradbury) can sit at a typewriter and start at line one page one, but... we're not all Ray Bradbury. I find a story flows much better when I have a loose blueprint to go by. A thing I like to do when fleshing out characters is ask myself: what do these people smell like? It sounds strange, but everyone has a distinctive smell to them. If you add that to your characters, it helps to make them more human, and more realistic. Helps when you draw them as well. Those are awesome tips by Ragtag. Another thing I like to do is write my characters into a 'hole'. This triggers how each of my characters will respond to circumstances/situations uniquely.

[InkAddict]

As for using role-playing games to generate characters. Find one with lots of personality traits (GURPS is a good example)

Yup! Also great when dealing with psychologically disturbed characters, is the mental illness chart from "Call of Cthulhu".

A RPG master I knew, used to use those charts but used "%" to detail it. A 5% psycho, is just a weirdtempered asocial son of a bitch, you don't really get to know (nor want to), and who likes to be on his own.
But a 100% pyromaniac cries out "BURN! BURN! BURN!" whenever he sees fire!

The thing with categorization is of course to know when to let go

....but it can help you through those moments of writer's block