Hi my name is Leah Hodgkinson, I am currently working on my dissertation which is based on an Interactive Comic for a CD-ROM. One of the most important aims of my product would be to ensure that my digital comic keeps the main characteristics of a comic. I would be grateful for any advice and opinions.
I would be particularly interested in your views about:-
Layout and design
- do you prefer many frames on a page or have one frame at a time?
- do you think I should include an option to print the comic?
Interaction
- do you think that too much interaction will make it seem like a game?
- would you prefer to click on the picture or have the navigation below?
Animation
- do you think that a comic could have some animation and still remain a comic?
- would you like to see some animation in comics?
Paper vs Digital
- do you prefer paper or digital comics?
- do you think that by making comics digitally they then loose their identity?
Sound
- do you think that voice overs should be included?
- do you think music should be included?
What is your favorite on line comic?
Even if you hate the idea of it, I would appreciate your opinion.
Thank you for you time
Interactive Comic
Moderator: Moderators
-
kaos_de_moria
- Consistant Poster
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: Switzerland
interactivity et al.
hi leah,
>do you prefer many frames on a page or have one frame at a time?
following scotts definition of a comic, one picture per page works could be considered as comics or could be considered as something different. depends on the interpretation. generally speaking, i prefer to put multiple pictures on one page because many tools comics offer are only possible to use if you have multiple pictures.
>do you think I should include an option to print the comic?
this has been discussed here before. i personally believe a digital comic is something different than a print comic and the two should be seen as separated. a digital comic which uses the options of being digital can not be printed. for multiple storylines the externality engine of e-merl might prove as a good choice
(http://www.e-merl.com/ex/index.htm)
>do you think that too much interaction will make it seem like a game?
probably depends on the way the interaction is done. if you decide for the main character it gets game qualities. if you decide for the surrounding such as 'he gets a job he is applying for' vs. ' he does not' you can stay away pretty much from creating the game impression. the increase of interaction on the other hand shortens the length of each story line which might frustrate the reader. you should also try to stay away from having one long story line on which you only stay if the reader makes the right decisions. if you construct it well you can probably merge different story lines again at a later stage.
>do you think that a comic could have some animation and still remain a comic?
yes, but only if animation is scarce. background animation like a bird or grass moving in the wind would probably give a good impression and be acceptable in a domain of the comic. (at this point, see discussion on invisible forces)
(http://www.zwol.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1045)
>do you prefer paper or digital comics?
see above, it's two different things and both have their merits. digital comics can do things printed comics can not. but you can't comfortably read a digital comic lying on your bed. additionally print can do things which monitors can't (e.g. high resolution, special colours, special inks, cuts in the paper). but special inks and so on are not used in comics yet as far as i know. for a great use of a hole in a paper look out for Marc-Antoine Mathieu, german title 'Der Ursprung'. I can't find the french original or if there is an english version. In german published by Reprodukt.
(http://www.reproduktcomics.de/)
edit: i just found the french version. it is called 'L'Origine'.
(http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2906187461/...)
edit II: as the above mentioned is out of print, it's republished under a new title: 'Julius Corentin Acquefacques, prisonnier des reves, tome 1: L'Origine'.
(http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2906187798/....)
>do you think that by making comics digitally they then loose their identity?
see above. no.
>do you think that voice overs should be included?
can't say why, but i don't like the idea. may be i am just old fashioned.
>do you think music should be included?
music seems to be ok to me.
>What is your favorite on line comic?
i'll take only finished projects into reference. so the right number does not count in. i guess it is The Mr. Nile Experiment.
(http://www.e-merl.com/mrnile/index.htm)
i'm looking forward to the discussion as wel as the results of your project,
kaos
>do you prefer many frames on a page or have one frame at a time?
following scotts definition of a comic, one picture per page works could be considered as comics or could be considered as something different. depends on the interpretation. generally speaking, i prefer to put multiple pictures on one page because many tools comics offer are only possible to use if you have multiple pictures.
>do you think I should include an option to print the comic?
this has been discussed here before. i personally believe a digital comic is something different than a print comic and the two should be seen as separated. a digital comic which uses the options of being digital can not be printed. for multiple storylines the externality engine of e-merl might prove as a good choice
(http://www.e-merl.com/ex/index.htm)
>do you think that too much interaction will make it seem like a game?
probably depends on the way the interaction is done. if you decide for the main character it gets game qualities. if you decide for the surrounding such as 'he gets a job he is applying for' vs. ' he does not' you can stay away pretty much from creating the game impression. the increase of interaction on the other hand shortens the length of each story line which might frustrate the reader. you should also try to stay away from having one long story line on which you only stay if the reader makes the right decisions. if you construct it well you can probably merge different story lines again at a later stage.
>do you think that a comic could have some animation and still remain a comic?
yes, but only if animation is scarce. background animation like a bird or grass moving in the wind would probably give a good impression and be acceptable in a domain of the comic. (at this point, see discussion on invisible forces)
(http://www.zwol.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1045)
>do you prefer paper or digital comics?
see above, it's two different things and both have their merits. digital comics can do things printed comics can not. but you can't comfortably read a digital comic lying on your bed. additionally print can do things which monitors can't (e.g. high resolution, special colours, special inks, cuts in the paper). but special inks and so on are not used in comics yet as far as i know. for a great use of a hole in a paper look out for Marc-Antoine Mathieu, german title 'Der Ursprung'. I can't find the french original or if there is an english version. In german published by Reprodukt.
(http://www.reproduktcomics.de/)
edit: i just found the french version. it is called 'L'Origine'.
(http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2906187461/...)
edit II: as the above mentioned is out of print, it's republished under a new title: 'Julius Corentin Acquefacques, prisonnier des reves, tome 1: L'Origine'.
(http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2906187798/....)
>do you think that by making comics digitally they then loose their identity?
see above. no.
>do you think that voice overs should be included?
can't say why, but i don't like the idea. may be i am just old fashioned.
>do you think music should be included?
music seems to be ok to me.
>What is your favorite on line comic?
i'll take only finished projects into reference. so the right number does not count in. i guess it is The Mr. Nile Experiment.
(http://www.e-merl.com/mrnile/index.htm)
i'm looking forward to the discussion as wel as the results of your project,
kaos
<IMG SRC="http://www.mihatsch.net/moritz/gesicht.gif">
Hi, I'll give a shot at answering this point by point.
I prefer multiple panels (frames) on a page/screen at a time, at leats 3 or 4. Of course, you can use full page/screen splash panels for effect here and there in the comic.
You should include an option to print comics. Personally I would read it of the screen, but I know of people who print online comics so they can read them on paper.
I think too much interaction can distract from the comic. Your focus shifts from the story and art of the comic, to how to navigate it. So in a way, it becomes like a game.
I would like to have both navigation buttons and be able to click on the picture.
I think animation in a comic should be limited to small loops. So you would basically use them the same way you use "action lines" to illustrate a movement.
I don't particularly like animation in comics. Most of it is badly animated and doesn't add anything to the story.
I prefer paper comics. I work on a computer all day staring at a screen, so I prefer reading of paper and in bed in my free time.
And, no I definately don't think that making comics digitally looses their identity. Though I'm guessing you mean making and publishing them digitally. But the answer is still no. They can loose their identity when they start drifiting too far in the direction of games/films/animation.
I don't think voice over should be included. I've never read a comic with a voice over, but I have a feeling I would hate it.
Music and sound could be included, as long as they're in the background to create an atmosphere, and are not telling the story.
Favorite online comic....hehe...can I decline to answer.
There are lots of cool comics out there, and I'm really bad at picking out a favorite.
Cheers,
Ragnar
www.ragtag.net
I prefer multiple panels (frames) on a page/screen at a time, at leats 3 or 4. Of course, you can use full page/screen splash panels for effect here and there in the comic.
You should include an option to print comics. Personally I would read it of the screen, but I know of people who print online comics so they can read them on paper.
I think too much interaction can distract from the comic. Your focus shifts from the story and art of the comic, to how to navigate it. So in a way, it becomes like a game.
I would like to have both navigation buttons and be able to click on the picture.
I think animation in a comic should be limited to small loops. So you would basically use them the same way you use "action lines" to illustrate a movement.
I don't particularly like animation in comics. Most of it is badly animated and doesn't add anything to the story.
I prefer paper comics. I work on a computer all day staring at a screen, so I prefer reading of paper and in bed in my free time.
And, no I definately don't think that making comics digitally looses their identity. Though I'm guessing you mean making and publishing them digitally. But the answer is still no. They can loose their identity when they start drifiting too far in the direction of games/films/animation.
I don't think voice over should be included. I've never read a comic with a voice over, but I have a feeling I would hate it.
Music and sound could be included, as long as they're in the background to create an atmosphere, and are not telling the story.
Favorite online comic....hehe...can I decline to answer.
There are lots of cool comics out there, and I'm really bad at picking out a favorite.Cheers,
Ragnar
www.ragtag.net
-
Tim Mallos
- Understands reinventing
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Brighton, Michigan
- Contact:
Howdy.
First, woo hoo! More scholarly work on comics (in some form).
Second, I am answering before reading the other responses.
Please forgive the wishy washy answers, but a lot of these are "well, it depends" kind of questions.
- do you prefer many frames on a page or have one frame at a time?
As a rule, I prefer to have many panels available without the interruption of a page load (analogous to turning the page in a printed work). This preference is, in part, driven by the shortcomings of the Web as a delivery medium. If CD-ROM were the delivery platform, screen refresh / page load time should be almost instantaneous.
If it serves the narrative, one panel or image at a time can work too. For instance, when building tension to a surprise twist.
- do you think I should include an option to print the comic?
If you are creating a print comic that you are delivering by CD-ROM, then sure. If you are creating a comic that has features / layout that are native to the digital form, then probably not. Although, in that case, you could include some printable extras to spice up the product.
Interaction
- do you think that too much interaction will make it seem like a game?
Leading the witness! Yes, I think "too much" interaction would be too much. Ideally a user is not conscious of the interface. If the interaction is complicated, contrived, or gimmicky it will distract from the story you are telling. That would be bad.
- Would you prefer to click on the picture or have the navigation below?
Yes. I want whatever I might think of doing to navigate to work. Like clicking on the image because it's a big target and I can keep thinking about the comic instead of breaking away from the story to aim my mouse at a button somewhere.
However, it's nice to be able to go back and do other kinds of jumping around, so that may work better below, above, beside - in some way apart from the content.
Animation
- do you think that a comic could have some animation and still remain a comic?
Yes. But it's tricky. Loops within a panel seem to work the best. Like the pendulum swinging on a clock. Caution though, animation is truly time-based, as opposed to comics that show time by panel proximity and frame content. Marrying the two in a way that benefits the story is a challenge.
- would you like to see some animation in comics?
Um, if it serves the story.
Paper vs Digital
- do you prefer paper or digital comics?
I prefer paper for print comics.
I prefer digital for comics that are designed to exist in digital form ( things like landscape orientation to accommodate the monitors of today, unconventional layout / interaction)
- do you think that by making comics digitally they then loose their identity?
No. Qualities tied to the medium change, but comics is comics.
Sound
- do you think that voice overs should be included?
I think introducing a narrative voice would make the comic into a slide show - really lousy animation.
Although, I could see playing with voice as a way of including more information. I've thought about creating a commentary track to a big project I'm working on, describing the process of creation and other details, like a commentary track on a DVD. But I see that as an optional, 'special' viewing mode.
- do you think music should be included?
Probably not usually.
Again, if it supports the narrative. Tricky like sound above. Most comics artist listen to music while creating, perhaps providing readers a selected sound track could enhance the experience.
[Edit: This works for me: http://www.butternutsquash.net/
And I just did this: http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics/NightAndDay/newpc/ for what it's worth.]
What is your favorite on line comic?
I'm really diggin' all of Kazu's stuff over at www.boltcity.com
Although, arguably, his stuff is print comics on the Web, so go figure.
Good luck and please post a link to your efforts when you wrap it up!
Tim
First, woo hoo! More scholarly work on comics (in some form).
Second, I am answering before reading the other responses.
Please forgive the wishy washy answers, but a lot of these are "well, it depends" kind of questions.
- do you prefer many frames on a page or have one frame at a time?
As a rule, I prefer to have many panels available without the interruption of a page load (analogous to turning the page in a printed work). This preference is, in part, driven by the shortcomings of the Web as a delivery medium. If CD-ROM were the delivery platform, screen refresh / page load time should be almost instantaneous.
If it serves the narrative, one panel or image at a time can work too. For instance, when building tension to a surprise twist.
- do you think I should include an option to print the comic?
If you are creating a print comic that you are delivering by CD-ROM, then sure. If you are creating a comic that has features / layout that are native to the digital form, then probably not. Although, in that case, you could include some printable extras to spice up the product.
Interaction
- do you think that too much interaction will make it seem like a game?
Leading the witness! Yes, I think "too much" interaction would be too much. Ideally a user is not conscious of the interface. If the interaction is complicated, contrived, or gimmicky it will distract from the story you are telling. That would be bad.
- Would you prefer to click on the picture or have the navigation below?
Yes. I want whatever I might think of doing to navigate to work. Like clicking on the image because it's a big target and I can keep thinking about the comic instead of breaking away from the story to aim my mouse at a button somewhere.
However, it's nice to be able to go back and do other kinds of jumping around, so that may work better below, above, beside - in some way apart from the content.
Animation
- do you think that a comic could have some animation and still remain a comic?
Yes. But it's tricky. Loops within a panel seem to work the best. Like the pendulum swinging on a clock. Caution though, animation is truly time-based, as opposed to comics that show time by panel proximity and frame content. Marrying the two in a way that benefits the story is a challenge.
- would you like to see some animation in comics?
Um, if it serves the story.
Paper vs Digital
- do you prefer paper or digital comics?
I prefer paper for print comics.
I prefer digital for comics that are designed to exist in digital form ( things like landscape orientation to accommodate the monitors of today, unconventional layout / interaction)- do you think that by making comics digitally they then loose their identity?
No. Qualities tied to the medium change, but comics is comics.
Sound
- do you think that voice overs should be included?
I think introducing a narrative voice would make the comic into a slide show - really lousy animation.
Although, I could see playing with voice as a way of including more information. I've thought about creating a commentary track to a big project I'm working on, describing the process of creation and other details, like a commentary track on a DVD. But I see that as an optional, 'special' viewing mode.
- do you think music should be included?
Probably not usually.
Again, if it supports the narrative. Tricky like sound above. Most comics artist listen to music while creating, perhaps providing readers a selected sound track could enhance the experience.
[Edit: This works for me: http://www.butternutsquash.net/
And I just did this: http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics/NightAndDay/newpc/ for what it's worth.]
What is your favorite on line comic?
I'm really diggin' all of Kazu's stuff over at www.boltcity.com
Although, arguably, his stuff is print comics on the Web, so go figure.
Good luck and please post a link to your efforts when you wrap it up!
Tim
<A Target="new" HREF="http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics"><Img border="0" src="http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics/zwolAvatar.gif"></A>
<A Target="new" HREF="http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics"> Tim Mallos' Comics and Stuff</A>
<A Target="new" HREF="http://www.fifthdigit.com/comics"> Tim Mallos' Comics and Stuff</A>
-
losttoy
- Understands reinventing
- Posts: 429
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 pm
- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
- Contact:
I really can not say too much that these fine gentlemen did not say already. Most of the answers are truely dependant on the example.
However, I want to make a comment on the voice over and soundtrack questions. What brings to mind are those old children's read-along storytime book and records. The kind with the magical ring to tell you to turn the page. This added a fun aspect to it without taking away from the experiance of the book. If you so choose, you could always read the book without the record. In this case, comic books and childrens books are not too far apart.
I remember not too long ago, I bought Sam Keith's "Maxx" comic from Image Comics. Then came an advertisement to purchase the soundtrack from a company called Animated Alligator. I bought the soundtrack that had the dialog and sound effects (minus the magical ring) and guess what it totaly rocked! The background music prefectly capture the tone. The voice actors fit the characters. Even the sound effects did a great job catching settle details. I was really impressed with the whole production. Then the"Maxx" animated series came out from MTV using a differennt crew, it did just as well as capturing the look, feel and sound of the art while staying true to the comic.
Was "Maxx" a comic? yes. Did you need a soundtrack? no. Did the soundtrack enhance the reading experience? yes. Was the soundtrack a comic on it's own? no. Was the animated series a comic? no. Did the animated series enhance the "Maxx" experience? yes and no because it stayed true to the comic and art, but you were not actualy reading the comic.
From this example you can draw your own conclutions. As a postscript, Animated Aligator did another comic soundtrack forr ShadowHawk that just plan sucked. Of course the original comic was never great. Just my opinion.
However, I want to make a comment on the voice over and soundtrack questions. What brings to mind are those old children's read-along storytime book and records. The kind with the magical ring to tell you to turn the page. This added a fun aspect to it without taking away from the experiance of the book. If you so choose, you could always read the book without the record. In this case, comic books and childrens books are not too far apart.
I remember not too long ago, I bought Sam Keith's "Maxx" comic from Image Comics. Then came an advertisement to purchase the soundtrack from a company called Animated Alligator. I bought the soundtrack that had the dialog and sound effects (minus the magical ring) and guess what it totaly rocked! The background music prefectly capture the tone. The voice actors fit the characters. Even the sound effects did a great job catching settle details. I was really impressed with the whole production. Then the"Maxx" animated series came out from MTV using a differennt crew, it did just as well as capturing the look, feel and sound of the art while staying true to the comic.
Was "Maxx" a comic? yes. Did you need a soundtrack? no. Did the soundtrack enhance the reading experience? yes. Was the soundtrack a comic on it's own? no. Was the animated series a comic? no. Did the animated series enhance the "Maxx" experience? yes and no because it stayed true to the comic and art, but you were not actualy reading the comic.
From this example you can draw your own conclutions. As a postscript, Animated Aligator did another comic soundtrack forr ShadowHawk that just plan sucked. Of course the original comic was never great. Just my opinion.
-
Greg Stephens
- Forum Founder
- Posts: 3862
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 7:00 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
- Contact:
Re: Animation in comics. Surprised nobody's mentioned "When I Am King" yet. See limited animation in particular in this group of panels.
Good morning! That's a nice tnetennba.
Thank you
Thanks to everyone that took the time to answer my questions. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
If you would be interested in viewing the final product in exchange for a review let me know.
Thanks again for your time.
Leah
Leah_HH@Hotmail.com
If you would be interested in viewing the final product in exchange for a review let me know.
Thanks again for your time.
Leah
Leah_HH@Hotmail.com
-
kaos_de_moria
- Consistant Poster
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: Switzerland
d.5
completely forgot it actually has animation. i really like this one. prolly what it shows is, if the animation is so small you forget it after a while it works and in this specific comic it really helps for the story lineGreg Stephens wrote:Re: Animation in comics. Surprised nobody's mentioned "When I Am King" yet. See limited animation in particular in this group of panels.
kaos
<IMG SRC="http://www.mihatsch.net/moritz/gesicht.gif">