surreal comics

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:29 pm

I wrote a little bit about my ideas on surreal comics in the "abstract comics" thread, but I wanted to go more in depth here and see what other people are thinking on the issue.

The basic idea behind my experimentation with surreal comics is this:

If a painting expresses or transmits an emotional stimulus, then a series of paintings could possibly combine to transmit a series of emotional stimuli.

(Of course a good painting has layers upon layers of emotional stimuli, but I wanted to simplify)

So, in my surreal comics experiment, I am hoping to "unleash" a set of symbols from my own unconscious (and the so-called "collective unconscious" as well), and see how they interact through a comic story telling format.

Hopefully several things should be going on in my comic. One is that there should be a decernable story, though perhaps muddy or vague in some parts (hopefully pleasently vague). On a second level, images that evoke emotions in myself and in the reader are presented in a fairly raw form. On a third level, those images interact with each other to produce layers of emotional content.

As the comic progresses, the images have taken on more and more of a substantial quality. What started out as mere one shots of what I hoped to be fairly powerful symbols has become a slightly more subdued and subtle analysis of each symbol in relation to other symbols. Like in dreams, the same meaning may appear in different symbolic forms, and nuances may differ within the same symbol from time to time.

Of course all good stories have some of this sort of thing going on anyhow. Superman, Batman, and the rest are increadibly symbolic, and their meanings as symbols can often times shift throughout a story. Their struggles are often times very symbolic as well. The main difference between that sort of stuff and what I am doing is that I am highlighting the symbolic aspect of the storytelling form and cutting out all the other stuff. For me, this is like getting at the true meaning, or the true fun of superhero comics.

Well, that is what is going on in my head as I create these surreal comics. Hopefully I will be able to develop the symbols even more, so that the reader can have a real chance to come face to face with a fairly in depth collection of dream like content. It is my hope that this dream like content can serve people in a way that more conscious material cannot.

Some of these ideas happened upon me by chance, some from looking at art and comics, and some of them came from reading the late psychoananylist Jung's works.

Does anyone else have any thoughts about surrealism in comics?

Tailsteak · Post by **Tailsteak** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:22 am

Surrealism isn't just about images. Has anyone here ever read the Gormenghast novels? I'm just a fraction of the way through them, and it's like reading a Dali painting.

It shouldn't have to be said-- but someone might as well say it-- that there's a big difference between surrealism and garden-variety wackiness.

I don't know. I think it may be difficult to really create a coherent sequence of emotions without coherent characters. I may get a deep sense of pathos or satisfaction from a painting, but never excitement or anger.

sandy carruthers · Post by **sandy carruthers** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:13 pm

This is such a great forum (the whole thing, not just this topic), good work, Greg!
Surrealism...hm. Is it me, or isn't saying 'let's introduce surrealism into e-comics' like saying 'let's introduce(place your favorite art movement here) into e-comics'? It seems(to me) a more important emphasis should be placed on the fact that e-comics (or, as I like to call it - e-quential art) is still in its' infancy in terms of we can define it anyway we damned well please. Let's not subject it to movements of our past, but create new visions, and call it what we will. If I create an e-comic that breaks new ground in this form, and I call it, Neosurreality (just an example) that displays some surrealistic characteristics, as well as other influences, and lets' say it catches on in the community. Suddenly, it's a new movement - not a rehash of an old form. Then it's a movement in itself, and art/design history books twenty years from now, will talk about this movement called Neosurreality that infected e-comics for a time period. I think if you come up with a great concept, than by gods, name it and claim it. Start the movements. Better still, here we exist in this 'global village' - pull a 'Group of Seven' - and introduce it with other creators. There doesn't seem to be enough of that type of organized movement these days. Considering the last design movement of note was Memphis, this saddens me. Let's have an Art Nouveau or Art Deco movement, but something unique to this artform known as e-quential art.

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:59 pm

In response to Tailsteak?fs input:

"Surrealism isn't just about images. Has anyone here ever read the Gormenghast novels? I'm just a fraction of the way through them, and it's like reading a Dali painting."

Awesome. So far I have not seen much narrative works (novels, comics, etc.) done with a surrealist bent, so I really look forward to reading those books!! Not only am I interested in reading them for the pure fun of enjoying something interesting, but also technically I am sure there is much to learn from them in terms of different ways surrealism can be experienced in a narrative format.

"It shouldn't have to be said-- but someone might as well say it-- that there's a big difference between surrealism and garden-variety wackiness."

Certainly. Though of course there is nothing wrong with plain wackiness, what I am interested in right now is art that attempts to harness the powers of subconscious images (or text, body movements, etc.)

"I don't know. I think it may be difficult to really create a coherent sequence of emotions without coherent characters."

My plan is that the characters themselves are symbolic. In other words, symbols are conveyed through the characters?f appearance, actions, thoughts & words, etc. The situations that they find themselves in are also meant to be symbolic.

I don?ft know if my present experiment is successful in creating a coherent sequence of emotions, but I feel that I am getting closer to understanding how this sort of thing can be done. Any thoughts on that methods for this kind of thing?

"I may get a deep sense of pathos or satisfaction from a painting, but never excitement or anger."

Why is that? (this is not meant to be a flippant question at all. I ask it with the utmost sincerity. I want to understand how different people look at different kinds of art)

Thanks for your comments!!

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[ This Message was edited by: gazorenzoku on 2002-01-18 12:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: gazorenzoku on 2002-01-18 12:52 ]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:19 pm

In response to Sally's comment:

I feel that there is a difference between simply inserting some form of art into comics and using techniques in comics that are also used in other art forms. In my case, I don't want to recreate surrealism or flow of consciousness (another technique that I use) in comics, but to find new methods of expression in comics. The names of the techniques, the names of the movements, and ultimately even the actual techniques themselves are not the most important thing. I use the names only because they are easy to use and easily understood.

To me, the unconscious mind is like an alien world. It is frightening, alluring, beautiful, ugly... The perfect place for an adventure! It is a powerful force watching over us, fighting with us, horrifying us, helping us... This is the terrain that I want to explore. That is what I meant to say in my first comment, though perhaps the usage of the word "surrealism" got in the way.

A new name for a new movement? That?fs fine too... any suggestions? How about "Unconscious Imagery Comics"? "Unconscious Narrative Comics?" Not very catchy... I might just play it like the Fauvists or the Impressionists and wait for some art critic to slap on a name...I'd also be interested in hearing Sally's suggestions... I'm not very good at this sort of "art movement naming" thing.

Anyhow, I really want to know what kind of thoughts are floating around out there in regards to this sort of thing. (not the name, but the concept)

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:23 pm

By the way, thanks for your comments, Sally.

sandy carruthers · Post by **sandy carruthers** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:36 pm

who the hell is sally?

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:51 pm

woah... how did that happen? How embarrasing!!! Sorry!!!

Jack Masters · Post by **Jack Masters** » Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:25 pm

On 2002-01-18 11:13, sandy carruthers wrote:
Is it me, or isn't saying 'let's introduce surrealism into e-comics' like saying 'let's introduce(place your favorite art movement here) into e-comics'? It seems(to me) a more important emphasis should be placed on the fact that e-comics (or, as I like to call it - e-quential art) is still in its' infancy in terms of we can define it anyway we damned well please. Let's not subject it to movements of our past, but create new visions, and call it what we will.

Why is it that people on this forum have such a great need to come up with new words for everything? Let's make a comic in the form of a cheese grater and call it an "e-neosequential bovine-squeezatonic art-induced flatulojuxtagraphic cyber-paradigm"

Surrealism is the genre of art originally designed to illustrate the workings of the subconscious mind through incongruously juxtaposed subject matter and fantastic imagery. My own comics tend to be somewhere between surreal and wacky, although lately I've been trying to stay away from the wacky end, and there's nothing wrong with saying the surreal ones count as part of the body of work known as "surrealism". They also fall under a lot of other categories, and there's nothing wrong with that.

If we make up a new word for everything that incorporates elements from more then one genre, movement, style, medium, etc. we'll soon be up to our ears in words that only describe a tiny amount of work. Wait for a particular way of doing things to really catch on, and THEN name it.

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[Edited for grammer]

[ This Message was edited by: Jack Masters on 2002-01-18 17:29 ]

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:16 am

On 2002-01-18 13:36, sandy carruthers wrote:
who the hell is sally?

I tried to go back and edit the slip up, but somehow I wasn't allowed to do so... Anyhow, is that kind of language really necessary?

vince

gazorenzoku · Post by **gazorenzoku** » Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:20 am

On 2002-01-18 17:25, Jack Masters wrote:
Why is it that people on this forum have such a great need to come up with new words for everything? Let's make a comic in the form of a cheese grater and call it an "e-neosequential bovine-squeezatonic art-induced flatulojuxtagraphic cyber-paradigm"

Sounds like a great name to me. I would like to hear about some of your ideas on the element of surrealism in a narrative format (particularly in a comics format). I really admire your work, and want to know more about what is going on behind it...

vince