Zwol.org

Hi. OK, the idea is, we do an issue, then we try and pitch it to some of the more accepting publishers, starting from Dark Horse and working down my rather extensive list of bookmarks. If it works out, then we do a 50-50 split on the cash.

I'm looking for somebody to illustrate one (or both) of these two stories:
1) A superhero/light horror story about a super-team with somewhat questionable methods. The overarching plot is an organised attack on the team from a group of their enemies, however there are many stories to be told before the final showdown, and some after. Currently one prologue issue fully scripted and more in works.
2) An epic fantasy story... I can't be arsed describing it here. Only marginally scripted, but very thoroughly plotted (if not to the end).

Any creative input will be welcome and probably sometimes requested )). Also, if you have any ideas at all for a story, then I will be more than happy to script them.

We might get picked up or we might be told to sod off. Either way this will allow you to add to your portfolio of sequential art, which is what publishers look for when they recruit people, and provide me with more writing experience.

Post here, PM me or e-mail me at ermol7@gmail.com
To whom it may concern, I live in England.

P.S. Writers are welcome for collaboration too. That being said, we can have fifteen million writers working on this, but with no artist it's gonna be pretty pointless )). That being said, I welcome working in a team.

Hi

Attached are a couple of samples of my art. I don't work for free though I'm afraid.

Yeah, just as an addendum, this is a no-pay gig. I.e. no money involved to start off with, (though if I get to meet with you I'll buy you a drink) until some publisher says Yay.

Ermol wrote:Yeah, just as an addendum, this is a no-pay gig. I.e. no money involved to start off with, (though if I get to meet with you I'll buy you a drink) until some publisher says Yay.

Buy them a drink?

How many people do you know who work full time for free?

The chances of getting published for even good writers are extremely low. So no artist worth their salt will do months worth of work on the chance you win the lottery, which is what your getting poublished amounts to.

well sorry C.UK., but if you DON'T have Marvel, DC, DH, or FQ, M.UK, or D.UK., credits to your name, then it is TOO EXPENSIVE A RISK, to market your work around. so be fair about it.

dbppres wrote:well sorry C.UK., but if you DON'T have Marvel, DC, DH, or FQ, M.UK, or D.UK., credits to your name, then it is TOO EXPENSIVE A RISK, to market your work around. so be fair about it.

Similarly unless the writer is a published, well known author working for them for free would be a totally pointless endeavour. Getting published would be like winning the lottery and this is the reality that you have to consider when expecting arists to donate thier time and talent to unknown writers for free.

Meanwhile my business is cartooning and people pay for my cartoons. I don't need to work for free.

Perhaps you can write for me for free and if I sell anything I'll give you a share?

I jest. I would never make anyone such an offer.

I do wish the member luck with his aims though but I think he/she will need to demonstrate they have some marketable skills in writing comic books to get any artist (paid or unpaid) on board.

So many people request these services that artists can be selective if they are going to work on a promise in the wind of maybe some sales, some time...maybe....

Many times I've been invited to illustrate books on the 'we'll pay after it sells' incentive. I don't know anyone as yet who has gone for such an offer with an unknown writer.

there is still an inequal comparison between artists and writers, and that is, that TOO MANY writers WILL do it for free, as i have had many emails asking me to work on projects for them, when i suggest a trade-of-services agreement for collaborations on projects.

if anything, you both need to take a leap of faith, and get the IMPORTANT goal met, and that is a finished product, that you both enjoy creating.

dbppres wrote:there is still an inequal comparison between artists and writers, and that is, that TOO MANY writers WILL do it for free, as i have had many emails asking me to work on projects for them, when i suggest a trade-of-services agreement for collaborations on projects.

if anything, you both need to take a leap of faith, and get the IMPORTANT goal met, and that is a finished product, that you both enjoy creating.

You only need to take a leap of faith, if you are unable to find paying customers.

actually, i have previously taken that leap of faith, and for 2 years off and on, i published 3 different minicomic titles, and failed to develop a customer base. what made me angry with so many of the creative submittors, was that they demanded payment, despite them not being mandated to do company-owned concepts. basically, i was the one offering them a free ride to getting published, and they were still ungrateful.

dbppres wrote:actually, i have previously taken that leap of faith, and for 2 years off and on, i published 3 different minicomic titles, and failed to develop a customer base. what made me angry with so many of the creative submittors, was that they demanded payment, despite them not being mandated to do company-owned concepts. basically, i was the one offering them a free ride to getting published, and they were still ungrateful.

Anyone can get published these days, so you're not offering anyone anything.
The trick is to sell once it's published. You didn't sell...so the people who worked for you, worked for nothing. Publicity doesn't pay the bills, money does.

getting published on HARD COPY(paper), is not freely granted to anyone, by printing/copying businesses.

so, that leads to the question, if they were so easily able to get published on paper, then WHY weren't they, by the time that i had contacted them?
eithey they DIDN'T have the funds, or they didn't have the faith/confidence in their own product, to take the risk, but i DID. so how is that ingratitude on their part, justified?

dbppres wrote:getting published on HARD COPY(paper), is not freely granted to anyone, by printing/copying businesses.

so, that leads to the question, if they were so easily able to get published on paper, then WHY weren't they, by the time that i had contacted them?
eithey they DIDN'T have the funds, or they didn't have the faith/confidence in their own product, to take the risk, but i DID. so how is that ingratitude on their part, justified?

I think you're missing the point.

Artists do not need to get published in books to earn money. Most of my work to date for clients has been for online use(webcomic/ads/gags). The rest for publicity materials or gifts. Comic strip ad in magazine and the like.

Re getting published in hardback...yes it is easy these days. You can use companies like http://www.lulu.com/ to print from 1 book to thousands or none at all until one sells. You can then sell them yourself via Amazon.

Getting a publishing deal can be harder. I was offered a hard back book publishing deal (not self-publishing) a couple of years ago. That's when I was 'writing' as oppose to drawing.

Meanwhile, you don't walk into a shop and then leave without paying, why do you expect artists to work for you for free? You're guaranteeing them 'nothing' in return.

If you were a well known author, I'd consider a deal (with proper contract) but you're not...and that is the bottom line.

my point is, that if it IS that easy, then WHY weren't any of the artists that i contacted/published, doing it themselves, out of their OWN FUNDING? so, that tells me that it wasn't as easy as it is made to seem.

dbppres wrote:my point is, that if it IS that easy, then WHY weren't any of the artists that i contacted/published, doing it themselves, out of their OWN FUNDING? so, that tells me that it wasn't as easy as it is made to seem.

Because they neither wanted to or needed to?

I do what my clients ask me to do because I offer an illustration service. In my spare time I do my own projects, but my main aim is fulfilling the needs of paying clients not satisfying my own creative dreams.

I don't think you have a very good understanding of what commercial artists are all about.

if they had no need to do it, then they would have refused my offer to publish their own projects, at least that's how i see it.

from what i have encountered from the people at DW, despite my having even offered a page rate, i still got jerked around and argued with, which wasn't doing either of us any good. it's that kind of behavior, as well as them being undependable, that made me quit publishing anymore.

dbppres wrote:if they had no need to do it, then they would have refused my offer to publish their own projects, at least that's how i see it.

from what i have encountered from the people at DW, despite my having even offered a page rate, i still got jerked around and argued with, which wasn't doing either of us any good. it's that kind of behavior, as well as them being undependable, that made me quit publishing anymore.

I can't comment on your individual experience.

I can say that the page rates I've seen offered on this forum so far are beyond a joke..

$100 for a 22 page comic.

£100 ($130 ish)is the bare minimum a cartoonist would charge for a single page of a comic let alone 22 pages!

£2,200 is therefore closer to a fair rate and even that is low.

I recently was paid £150 (around $220) for a single panel cartoon (1 cartoon) why would anyone other than an absolute hobbiest charge $1 for 5 cartoons when those images may take them an entire week to draw. It's insulting to even make the offer.

No one works 40hrs+ for $1 !

well, i do inform artists, that if i do pay them, then the product had better completed on time, and exactly according to provided written specifications, or i will personally go to their residence, and physically harm their drawing hand, to get my point across, and that is non-negotiable.

dbppres wrote:well, i do inform artists, that if i do pay them, then the product had better completed on time, and exactly according to provided written specifications, or i will personally go to their residence, and physically harm their drawing hand, to get my point across, and that is non-negotiable.

silly boy

when it comes to money being involved, it is, THAT SERIOUS.

dbppres wrote:when it comes to money being involved, it is, THAT SERIOUS.

Grow up

hey, let's get something clear, i work too hard for my money, to allow someone to dishonor my contractual agreement with them, and try to do it at my expense. that's why i DON'T offer upfront page rates, to avoid that kind of problem.

dbppres wrote:hey, let's get something clear, i work too hard for my money, to allow someone to dishonor my contractual agreement with them, and try to do it at my expense. that's why i DON'T offer upfront page rates, to avoid that kind of problem.

Quite clearly you're too young to earn money. If you did earn money you'd be familiar with paying for services, rent, bills, food and so on, so your defence is simply lame.

Some of the discussion has been interesting, but it no longer appears constructive. Considering that this thread was started by Ermol and the current discussion no longer serves his interest in attracting a collaborator, I am locking it.

You are welcome to start new topics for discussion in the appropriate forums.