Dont rip off the writers. If you lack stable income, be smart about it. Get a job. People would rarely want you to do art for them at such a price.
Especially if youre new to this.
Artists who need a lot of money!
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Advice
The reason artists charge so much is because art takes a LOT of time and even equipment at times when it comes to specific art pens, pencils, and programs.
It can take several hours to just create one page of a comic, one artist I worked with described it to me as taking an entire day to completely pencil, ink, color, and letter a comic which amounts to 8 hours of work.
Assume that the artist does have a full time job to support himself and his family, he'd be doing a nine to five and then lets say he takes two-three hours to get groceries, play with family, overall necessary life stuff (and a lot of these artists DO have families and children). Then maybe he has maybe one or two hours each day to draw one quarter of what it requires to do a page. So one page would take almost an entire work week, if not more than that depending on his life, and during this period of time he would have little free time to himself so it's even more stressful than usual work weeks.
For one he has to have a LOT of faith in the project to do that and for another even he does really like you it may take him months if he's not completely on point to do an 8-12 page comic, if not a year which has happened to me a couple times when I have done "free" projects for portfolios. We writers can write an entire issue in a couple days during our free time, it's much easier for us and it's hard to see how difficult it is for artists unless they make enough to do art as a part-time or full time job.
Take it easy on the artists because with all the work they have to do, when they look at your project they have to look very hard. They have families to feed and mental health to keep up by doing something other than drawing in their precious free-time. The two things they'll think is "will this pay the bills that are mounting up" and/or "Will I have fun with this?" If you can't satisfy one of those needs you won't get a collaboration, it's a sad fact of the craft.
Best,
Ruyei
It can take several hours to just create one page of a comic, one artist I worked with described it to me as taking an entire day to completely pencil, ink, color, and letter a comic which amounts to 8 hours of work.
Assume that the artist does have a full time job to support himself and his family, he'd be doing a nine to five and then lets say he takes two-three hours to get groceries, play with family, overall necessary life stuff (and a lot of these artists DO have families and children). Then maybe he has maybe one or two hours each day to draw one quarter of what it requires to do a page. So one page would take almost an entire work week, if not more than that depending on his life, and during this period of time he would have little free time to himself so it's even more stressful than usual work weeks.
For one he has to have a LOT of faith in the project to do that and for another even he does really like you it may take him months if he's not completely on point to do an 8-12 page comic, if not a year which has happened to me a couple times when I have done "free" projects for portfolios. We writers can write an entire issue in a couple days during our free time, it's much easier for us and it's hard to see how difficult it is for artists unless they make enough to do art as a part-time or full time job.
Take it easy on the artists because with all the work they have to do, when they look at your project they have to look very hard. They have families to feed and mental health to keep up by doing something other than drawing in their precious free-time. The two things they'll think is "will this pay the bills that are mounting up" and/or "Will I have fun with this?" If you can't satisfy one of those needs you won't get a collaboration, it's a sad fact of the craft.
Best,
Ruyei
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josephvelasquez
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Re: Artists who need a lot of money!
LOLGodman wrote:Dont rip off the writers. If you lack stable income, be smart about it. Get a job. People would rarely want you to do art for them at such a price.
Especially if youre new to this.
Ok man. Good luck with your career
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morbid
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gintongkamay
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Ruyei, the way you speak about the subject makes it seem like it takes no effort at all to write. That you can just write down the first idea that comes to mind and then you're done in a few days which is an extremely unrealistic outlook on he process. I personally like to have my entire story properly planned out before even attempting to write a script. Creating the story as you go leads to sloppy story telling and a lot of plot holes in my opinion.. I have a full time job as well as a wife and 2 children just like a lot of the artists that you mentioned. The only difference is that beginning artists are taught to ask for some sort of compensation for their time and effort regardless of their skill level. So even if they are brand new to comics they are still likely to ask for even a small payment. Now as for a writer they have to have at least a script started before it's even logical to look for an artist but they aren't getting any type of compensation for their time. That means for me I have to go to work, come home, spend time with my 2 year old and 6 month old children, feed them, put them to sleep, give my wife time to study and do homework, spend some time with my wife and then after that create my story. I specified the word create because you can't just begin writing a script before fleshing out an idea to its near entirety. I get maybe 30 minutes to an hr a day (not consecutive) of actual time on my story Also I do this as a hobby, so I do not plan on making money off of this any time soon but I'm still expected to pay for some artists bills? And on top of that its expected that I give him a percentage of my story even though he has given no creative input to the story other than the visuals, visuals that I described to him in vivid detail might I add. What is my money paying for then if it's required for me to give him a HUGE percent of MY creation? Now this doesn't really apply to an artist that gets vague descriptions of the story and is expected to panel the story himself or an artist that is giving equal input to the development of the story but that's pretty rare to find from what I have noticed.
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gintongkamay
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youngPRO, so you don't think any artist needs to be paid to draw your story just because this is just your hobby? Then like I said, ask a gullible high schooler to draw for you for free and promise him that your oh so awesome story will be famous and will give him so much exposure he will get more work.
Writing a story is your choice. It is also your choice if you want make it a comic book. Why would any artist would work for your hobby for free? Have you ever ask a book from a bookstore and just because your hobby is reading and you don't make any money from it, you'll ask it for free?
To draw comics is a job. If you will ask someone to fix your computer and you won't earn money by using it does not mean the technician does not deserve to be paid for a work that you want done.
You want somebody to work for you and draw your awesome story? Then you must pay the artist. Either you plan to earn money from it or not is not any artists problem.
Writing and drawing are both not easy. What if I give you a vivid detail of a character design or a scene and then let's watch you draw it. Let's see if that's easy. Visuals makes the comic a comic. And to bring a story to visual storytelling takes a lot of training and technical knowledge.
Also, percentage from creation is totally not a requirement. It is case to case basis depending on the agreement.
IF you do not want to pay an artist to draw your story, better make it a novel so you don't waste anybody's time.
Writing a story is your choice. It is also your choice if you want make it a comic book. Why would any artist would work for your hobby for free? Have you ever ask a book from a bookstore and just because your hobby is reading and you don't make any money from it, you'll ask it for free?
To draw comics is a job. If you will ask someone to fix your computer and you won't earn money by using it does not mean the technician does not deserve to be paid for a work that you want done.
You want somebody to work for you and draw your awesome story? Then you must pay the artist. Either you plan to earn money from it or not is not any artists problem.
Writing and drawing are both not easy. What if I give you a vivid detail of a character design or a scene and then let's watch you draw it. Let's see if that's easy. Visuals makes the comic a comic. And to bring a story to visual storytelling takes a lot of training and technical knowledge.
Also, percentage from creation is totally not a requirement. It is case to case basis depending on the agreement.
IF you do not want to pay an artist to draw your story, better make it a novel so you don't waste anybody's time.
@youngpro
Well for one thing what I often see when you pay an artist is that he doesn't take back-end, but rather a page rate, so no I wouldn't expect an artist to charge a working wage and still want a stake in the project. That indeed is unfair.
You're right I did simplify things a bit. When I write I often start with an idea for sure, but I often take time to write a proper "bible" which I then use to attract artists with samples of the script, character bios, world synopsis, and many other elements.
The point I was trying to make that in my opinion, artists do most of the work and when I look at back-end percentages as a writer I am totally satisfied with 30% of the gross if I don't pay up front. It certainly does take me time to write outlines, bios, and other material as prewriting, but what I meant is that as a writer when it comes to writing a draft it often takes me around a week to write the entire 24 page script if I have the free time to do so. I do indeed have other commitments though so it does depend, but I do find it interesting that it takes me one hour to write a 3-6 page length of script (and I do expect to become more efficient) while it can take an artist an entire day to complete one single page in terms of penciling, inking, lettering and coloring. I think that it simply isn't an argument that artists should get more consideration than writers since they do most of the work.
It certainly is unfair, I agree, that there are few writing opportunities. But they do exist, and I have had artists approach me to write their stories with ME getting paid rather than them. It all comes to, in the end, whose story it is. If you do what the artist wants to do than most likely you won't have to pay them, or at least will get a larger commitment. If your project is your own personal project then yes, expect to pay or to work a little to bring it in line with what the artist will want to do. It's just that there is more of a demand for artists because it takes more time and thus it is more inconvenient for the artist to do a project than it is for a writer when considering work by page. Tis the way it is. If you're having trouble getting artists for projects it can always be more successful to work on an artist's pet project, and that solves the problem right there.
Best,
Ruyei
@gintong
There are artists who are hobbyists too! It's perfectly reasonable to want to see a like mind to do comics with you, the issue is that they need convincing. There are so many more hobbyist writers than artists for one and on the other end hobbyist artists have to be convinced with a good and through pitch proving the writer's and the story's prowess. Add to the mix that most hobbyists only want to do 8-12 pages and that they go very slowly and there you have the reason why it's better to pay if you can. Still, for someone just starting out with no money to spare it is a good way to practice, it just is unrealistic to expect said artist to do an extended run unless he or she really feels invested.
Well for one thing what I often see when you pay an artist is that he doesn't take back-end, but rather a page rate, so no I wouldn't expect an artist to charge a working wage and still want a stake in the project. That indeed is unfair.
You're right I did simplify things a bit. When I write I often start with an idea for sure, but I often take time to write a proper "bible" which I then use to attract artists with samples of the script, character bios, world synopsis, and many other elements.
The point I was trying to make that in my opinion, artists do most of the work and when I look at back-end percentages as a writer I am totally satisfied with 30% of the gross if I don't pay up front. It certainly does take me time to write outlines, bios, and other material as prewriting, but what I meant is that as a writer when it comes to writing a draft it often takes me around a week to write the entire 24 page script if I have the free time to do so. I do indeed have other commitments though so it does depend, but I do find it interesting that it takes me one hour to write a 3-6 page length of script (and I do expect to become more efficient) while it can take an artist an entire day to complete one single page in terms of penciling, inking, lettering and coloring. I think that it simply isn't an argument that artists should get more consideration than writers since they do most of the work.
It certainly is unfair, I agree, that there are few writing opportunities. But they do exist, and I have had artists approach me to write their stories with ME getting paid rather than them. It all comes to, in the end, whose story it is. If you do what the artist wants to do than most likely you won't have to pay them, or at least will get a larger commitment. If your project is your own personal project then yes, expect to pay or to work a little to bring it in line with what the artist will want to do. It's just that there is more of a demand for artists because it takes more time and thus it is more inconvenient for the artist to do a project than it is for a writer when considering work by page. Tis the way it is. If you're having trouble getting artists for projects it can always be more successful to work on an artist's pet project, and that solves the problem right there.
Best,
Ruyei
@gintong
There are artists who are hobbyists too! It's perfectly reasonable to want to see a like mind to do comics with you, the issue is that they need convincing. There are so many more hobbyist writers than artists for one and on the other end hobbyist artists have to be convinced with a good and through pitch proving the writer's and the story's prowess. Add to the mix that most hobbyists only want to do 8-12 pages and that they go very slowly and there you have the reason why it's better to pay if you can. Still, for someone just starting out with no money to spare it is a good way to practice, it just is unrealistic to expect said artist to do an extended run unless he or she really feels invested.
@gintongkamay
No that is not what I said at all. I didn't say that because it's a hobby for me that I don't expect to pay for an artist so your entire post is completely irrelevant.
I was agreeing with the original poster. Also I mentioned that this is a hobby for me because I don't have the experience to make it full time and to that I compared it to artist that are the same level of experience as myself still expecting to get paid. That was the point I wanted to get across but maybe I rambled a bit so it might have been unclear.
Personally, I am working with artist that are decent but not to the level I would want for a finished product but I understand that as a beginner that's the type of artist that is willing to work with me.
Once I have more experience then I will save up money for a better artist.
Now I did not attack your skill as an artist so do not try to attack my abilities as a writer. Even though it is a hobby for me now I do take my writing very seriously as I can tell you do with your work. I am giving you a certain level of respect so I would appreciate the same from you.
@ruyei
I can definitely see your point of view on the topic but I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the artist does the most work honestly. Maybe it's just me but I go into a lot of depth with my stories and do a lot of research to make sure my stories are as accurate as possible and I feel that all of that effort goes unnoticed.
But we're all entitled to my opinion. Although those are my thoughts I still understand that I have to pay for quality work.
No that is not what I said at all. I didn't say that because it's a hobby for me that I don't expect to pay for an artist so your entire post is completely irrelevant.
I was agreeing with the original poster. Also I mentioned that this is a hobby for me because I don't have the experience to make it full time and to that I compared it to artist that are the same level of experience as myself still expecting to get paid. That was the point I wanted to get across but maybe I rambled a bit so it might have been unclear.
Personally, I am working with artist that are decent but not to the level I would want for a finished product but I understand that as a beginner that's the type of artist that is willing to work with me.
Once I have more experience then I will save up money for a better artist.
Now I did not attack your skill as an artist so do not try to attack my abilities as a writer. Even though it is a hobby for me now I do take my writing very seriously as I can tell you do with your work. I am giving you a certain level of respect so I would appreciate the same from you.
@ruyei
I can definitely see your point of view on the topic but I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think the artist does the most work honestly. Maybe it's just me but I go into a lot of depth with my stories and do a lot of research to make sure my stories are as accurate as possible and I feel that all of that effort goes unnoticed.
But we're all entitled to my opinion. Although those are my thoughts I still understand that I have to pay for quality work.
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gintongkamay
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