Hi Guys, Ruyei here, you may know me as the guy who makes looking for artist posts myself from time to time and comments on posts every once in a while. Just wanted to ask a question that I feel would benefit many here (Including myself!) and that is "Artists, what do you look for in a writer?" This applies not only for working relationships but also for a writer's initial post on zwol. For example, what sort of posts attract you to a writer, what sorts of details? How would you prefer the writer describe his or her concept or pitch? Do you like links or embedded scripts? Do you like it when writers post not one but multiple ideas? And as for working relations how quick does the writer have to write his or her script, or does it have to be already complete. Does the writer have to be willing to contact in other ways other than e-mail? Do they have to "speak" professionally (As in no "Lol" and competent grammar)? And last but not least, how much do you as artists want to be involved in the creation process of a comic you are on the collaborating end of?
These are the main questions I can think of, but if you guys have any other good ones I will edit my post. Please try to be polite everyone, I'd rather this not turn into a writer against artist or artist against writers debate (And thus I would like discussions about paying artists kept out of this thread since honestly discussing that has already been done to death). Please try to keep an open mind everyone and I hope that writers out there hearing your advice will get a little wiser in their looking for artists posts. As much as I like replying to them and setting them straight I only have so much time! And moreso I'm open to advice that I can use as well!
Happy discussing!
Ruyei/Rob
Artists, what do you look for in a writer?
Moderator: Moderators
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diegolopez
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:53 am
Hello:
We like the writer has s clear view of his story, to know ezactly what he wants and that he believes in his work. We like a good brief sinopsis, striking, fresh and passionate. Showing fron the very synopsis how well you can write, We like the writer that are clear, honest, that backup their own work.
Best regards:
Diego.
We like the writer has s clear view of his story, to know ezactly what he wants and that he believes in his work. We like a good brief sinopsis, striking, fresh and passionate. Showing fron the very synopsis how well you can write, We like the writer that are clear, honest, that backup their own work.
Best regards:
Diego.
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FaultyMirror
- Consistant Poster
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:58 am
- Location: Sweden
The PAID word helps sometimes/most times 
I have found myself drawn to clear pitches with a nice display of vocabulary <3 A few smileys here or there are no problem. I personally dislike email for communication purposes after the initial contact (too formal) but I also accept the fact that not everyone is on Facebook ^^
A hint at the settings and story to get our minds at work is a big plus. Use lots of adjectives to describe the elements in your world (huge, dark, evil, monstrous,…). Give us a feel of what drives the main characters/forces in your universe.
Confidence is a determining factor, act like you know what you are doing and you'll be taken seriously. If you aren't a professional, show determination. A confident writer is an inspiring writer and inspiration leads to dedication.
Dream, write, inspire.
We comic doers are the gods of our respective universes…
LETS MAKE'EM BADDASS!!
I have found myself drawn to clear pitches with a nice display of vocabulary <3 A few smileys here or there are no problem. I personally dislike email for communication purposes after the initial contact (too formal) but I also accept the fact that not everyone is on Facebook ^^
A hint at the settings and story to get our minds at work is a big plus. Use lots of adjectives to describe the elements in your world (huge, dark, evil, monstrous,…). Give us a feel of what drives the main characters/forces in your universe.
Confidence is a determining factor, act like you know what you are doing and you'll be taken seriously. If you aren't a professional, show determination. A confident writer is an inspiring writer and inspiration leads to dedication.
Dream, write, inspire.
We comic doers are the gods of our respective universes…
LETS MAKE'EM BADDASS!!
-
FaultyMirror
- Consistant Poster
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:58 am
- Location: Sweden
-
ld-airgrafix
- Consistant Poster
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:17 pm
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Ok I edited my post because I was under the influence when I posted it and I sounded like a deuce.
So I say Just be real and mindful that in order to collaborate on something with someone you have never met you both have to feel equally responsible for creating the world and characters. It's not about collaborating to realize 1 person's dream. .
So I say Just be real and mindful that in order to collaborate on something with someone you have never met you both have to feel equally responsible for creating the world and characters. It's not about collaborating to realize 1 person's dream. .
Last edited by mibodega on Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi my name is Vince and I am an artist and writer. I have been keeping an eye on this site and others for a few months now and the reason I have not communicated with most is the fact that most posts have a pattern, which I will explain. Please excuse my bluntness, I 'm not trying to be rude or arrogant.... It's my personality to speak forward. I would like to thank you Ruyei for having the interest to understand artists needs and I respect you for it.
1) First off: To get this clear and out of the way (don't worry its painless) obviously payment is avoided in most posts relating to artists in most sites not only this one. But the thing about this is it shows the potential artist that the book is just an activity not a career pursuit. Allot of things regarding this is left out such as printing costs, distribution, and promotion costs etc. Who pays it? And most of all paying the artist with their share if the comic is sold to the public. Which allot of writer's offer in their collaboration pitch but stays off that subject when they are contacted.
2) Artist wants to be assured that their time will not be wasted. Their talents not belittled and they won't get the short end of the stick. When a pitch is made to a potential artist it is best to let the artist know about your plans and benefits (for yourself and the artist) as well as displaying your writing ability.
3) Some writers would not show their script unless contacted (which some artist don't care to do since it could of been posted) which tells us you are reclusive in your ideas and would be selfish in the creation process.
4) Rights- If you say you want a partnership, collaboration then that should mean they should get all rights to the story as well. Yet no one mentions this. If someone drew a comic for you and after it is published- who has the rights and benefits? posts always ignore this... If you both share then how will you distribute the money of the sales to your partners involved assuming they trust you.
5) Benefits for artists is key... if you don't have that in mind for the artist in any way - NO DEAL. Don't assume they have time to waste on something that benefits you. I am sometimes offended when some say do it because it's fun or because they will give you exposure or even publishing credits as if we were amateurs... We will get that regardless because we did the art for the book. Like my brother says (it's a given) What else you got? It bothers me when I read "my story, my ideas, my group." If you have partners- it's theirs as well unless you bought their half. If you want it all to be yours- either pay the participants or make a better deal. If not, then don't offer collaboration and just be honest and say I am looking for an artist to do my book for free but since it is, I am not picky on skill level, time or loyalty.
6) Expendability is another issue because if the artist creates character designs, page layouts etc. What happens to them if it does not work out between you both? Do you keep the artists designs to use in your story anyway even when that particular artist is no longer involved? If you split ways, don't you take your story with you? Basically, If your partnership discontinues then the project should as well and must restart afresh... Meaning that if I drew for your story and designed characters but things went sour in our partnership then I have the right to forbid use of my designs in the comic unless they were already published. That means when you find another artist they must create a different likeness of your characters not using anything that the other artist produced... ideas, concepts, likeness, and page layouts. You keep your work, they keep theirs unless you bought it or agreed upon. The story is still yours but the designs belongs to its creator. It is ripping the artist off if his or her work is being used without their consent. The artist also must respect the writer and must not use those characters for other stories.
7) Showing that you have connections (if any) can help your pitch because it will encourage the artist that you are putting effort to make contact in the business but it also assures them that the book has a chance.
Formality is too common in post -not all- but I see when I contact writers, they never give me their name or even try to get to know me. How can you be partners if you can't connect personally? That automatically shows me we won't last long because I'm not treated as a person. Since our communications are done remotely it is best to assure the other person your good intentions and prove it.
9) Giving your sample... displaying a one-page script is fine accompanied with a synopsis of your story.
Also if you want to create something new with the artist then please feel free to mention it. If you want to be affective-- be honest and say what you really want from the artist. Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. Most creative people have good memories and will spot a plagiarist pretty fast and not trust them.
If I missed anything or you have any questions please let me know. Best wishes!
NOTE;
Personality- show the artist you are not a stick in the mud or a stiff neck to work with. Have fun with it!
Considerate- not self-seeking but considers the artists benefit as well as yours.
Fairness- allow the artist to have creative freedom and offer equal benefits.
Talented- show that you are flexible, creative and inspired.
Offer- give some reason why they should work with you. Be honest, have personality, and get to the point.
Assertive - show that you are open to possibilities that will enhance both of you to be noticed by the public and are willing to put your share of the effort.
Assurance- show the artist that this project will not waste their time nor they are being taken advantage to get free services.
Respect- always show respect to other peoples work, time and efforts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a small sample of a pitch a writer could give that might help. (The script is not mine, it's just for example)
Show energy, excitement, character, straight to the point information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEEKING ARTISTS FOR NEW COMIC BOOK SENSATION!
LOOKING FOR.> PENCILERS, INKERS, COLORISTS, LETTERERS, PROMOTERS, CONNECTIONS etc.
STYLE> MARVEL or anything close
SKILL LEVEL> ANY ---no stick figures please!
BENEFIT> PAYMENT $50.00 PER PAGE BUDGET OR PARTNERSHIP ASK FOR MORE INFO
Hello artist out there! My name is.... I have an offer for those who are seeking collaboration with a writer who will put your creative skills to its limit! I look beyond the box (what box?)
Here's the deal... I would like to collaborate with an artist who is willing to create and produce with me the comic of all comics! The hero of all heroes! You will have full share with me of all rights and benefits.
Plan: We both work on the concept and characters together so this story will be yours as well as mine.
I'll write and promote through social media etc. You design characters and illustrate the pages. If this sounds good to you then email me and wow my mind with your samples! Here's a taste...
Credit to writers at http://www.penciljack.com
PAGE ONE, Five Panels
Panel One: CU of fingers dialing on a cellphone
Panel Two: Fullshot of teenaged MJ walking down a flight of stairs leading into the subway. In the background we can see a couple walking up the stairs, heading for the surface. Other than that, she is alone and it’s night.
MJ: Mom? Uh, why aren’t you home? Ok, well I’m probably just talking to myself, but I had to stay late to help with inventory. I’m catching the last train out right now, so I should be home in about a half hour…
Panel Three: CU of MJ nervously waiting for the train, being careful not to stand anywhere near the edge. She’s watching a bum who is squatting down on the platform near the mouth of the subway tunnel, a bit worried by his behavior.
MJ:…sure would be nice if you met me at the station with the car. Hope everything’s-
Answering Machine: (over phone) BEEEP!
Panel Four: MS of MJ is closing her cellphone and pulling her coat tighter with the other hand. She is looking down at her feet, depressed. The bum is shuffling off up the stairs. From the tunnel, odd noises begin to erupt.
MJ: *sigh* Love you.
Sound: SCREECH, SCREECH
Panel Five: Low angle Medium LS of MJ stepping closer to the edge of the platform. Curiousity has taken hold.
MJ: …?
1) First off: To get this clear and out of the way (don't worry its painless) obviously payment is avoided in most posts relating to artists in most sites not only this one. But the thing about this is it shows the potential artist that the book is just an activity not a career pursuit. Allot of things regarding this is left out such as printing costs, distribution, and promotion costs etc. Who pays it? And most of all paying the artist with their share if the comic is sold to the public. Which allot of writer's offer in their collaboration pitch but stays off that subject when they are contacted.
2) Artist wants to be assured that their time will not be wasted. Their talents not belittled and they won't get the short end of the stick. When a pitch is made to a potential artist it is best to let the artist know about your plans and benefits (for yourself and the artist) as well as displaying your writing ability.
3) Some writers would not show their script unless contacted (which some artist don't care to do since it could of been posted) which tells us you are reclusive in your ideas and would be selfish in the creation process.
4) Rights- If you say you want a partnership, collaboration then that should mean they should get all rights to the story as well. Yet no one mentions this. If someone drew a comic for you and after it is published- who has the rights and benefits? posts always ignore this... If you both share then how will you distribute the money of the sales to your partners involved assuming they trust you.
5) Benefits for artists is key... if you don't have that in mind for the artist in any way - NO DEAL. Don't assume they have time to waste on something that benefits you. I am sometimes offended when some say do it because it's fun or because they will give you exposure or even publishing credits as if we were amateurs... We will get that regardless because we did the art for the book. Like my brother says (it's a given) What else you got? It bothers me when I read "my story, my ideas, my group." If you have partners- it's theirs as well unless you bought their half. If you want it all to be yours- either pay the participants or make a better deal. If not, then don't offer collaboration and just be honest and say I am looking for an artist to do my book for free but since it is, I am not picky on skill level, time or loyalty.
6) Expendability is another issue because if the artist creates character designs, page layouts etc. What happens to them if it does not work out between you both? Do you keep the artists designs to use in your story anyway even when that particular artist is no longer involved? If you split ways, don't you take your story with you? Basically, If your partnership discontinues then the project should as well and must restart afresh... Meaning that if I drew for your story and designed characters but things went sour in our partnership then I have the right to forbid use of my designs in the comic unless they were already published. That means when you find another artist they must create a different likeness of your characters not using anything that the other artist produced... ideas, concepts, likeness, and page layouts. You keep your work, they keep theirs unless you bought it or agreed upon. The story is still yours but the designs belongs to its creator. It is ripping the artist off if his or her work is being used without their consent. The artist also must respect the writer and must not use those characters for other stories.
7) Showing that you have connections (if any) can help your pitch because it will encourage the artist that you are putting effort to make contact in the business but it also assures them that the book has a chance.
Formality is too common in post -not all- but I see when I contact writers, they never give me their name or even try to get to know me. How can you be partners if you can't connect personally? That automatically shows me we won't last long because I'm not treated as a person. Since our communications are done remotely it is best to assure the other person your good intentions and prove it.9) Giving your sample... displaying a one-page script is fine accompanied with a synopsis of your story.
Also if you want to create something new with the artist then please feel free to mention it. If you want to be affective-- be honest and say what you really want from the artist. Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. Most creative people have good memories and will spot a plagiarist pretty fast and not trust them.
If I missed anything or you have any questions please let me know. Best wishes!
NOTE;
Personality- show the artist you are not a stick in the mud or a stiff neck to work with. Have fun with it!
Considerate- not self-seeking but considers the artists benefit as well as yours.
Fairness- allow the artist to have creative freedom and offer equal benefits.
Talented- show that you are flexible, creative and inspired.
Offer- give some reason why they should work with you. Be honest, have personality, and get to the point.
Assertive - show that you are open to possibilities that will enhance both of you to be noticed by the public and are willing to put your share of the effort.
Assurance- show the artist that this project will not waste their time nor they are being taken advantage to get free services.
Respect- always show respect to other peoples work, time and efforts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a small sample of a pitch a writer could give that might help. (The script is not mine, it's just for example)
Show energy, excitement, character, straight to the point information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SEEKING ARTISTS FOR NEW COMIC BOOK SENSATION!
LOOKING FOR.> PENCILERS, INKERS, COLORISTS, LETTERERS, PROMOTERS, CONNECTIONS etc.
STYLE> MARVEL or anything close
SKILL LEVEL> ANY ---no stick figures please!
BENEFIT> PAYMENT $50.00 PER PAGE BUDGET OR PARTNERSHIP ASK FOR MORE INFO
Hello artist out there! My name is.... I have an offer for those who are seeking collaboration with a writer who will put your creative skills to its limit! I look beyond the box (what box?)
Here's the deal... I would like to collaborate with an artist who is willing to create and produce with me the comic of all comics! The hero of all heroes! You will have full share with me of all rights and benefits.
Plan: We both work on the concept and characters together so this story will be yours as well as mine.
I'll write and promote through social media etc. You design characters and illustrate the pages. If this sounds good to you then email me and wow my mind with your samples! Here's a taste...
Credit to writers at http://www.penciljack.com
PAGE ONE, Five Panels
Panel One: CU of fingers dialing on a cellphone
Panel Two: Fullshot of teenaged MJ walking down a flight of stairs leading into the subway. In the background we can see a couple walking up the stairs, heading for the surface. Other than that, she is alone and it’s night.
MJ: Mom? Uh, why aren’t you home? Ok, well I’m probably just talking to myself, but I had to stay late to help with inventory. I’m catching the last train out right now, so I should be home in about a half hour…
Panel Three: CU of MJ nervously waiting for the train, being careful not to stand anywhere near the edge. She’s watching a bum who is squatting down on the platform near the mouth of the subway tunnel, a bit worried by his behavior.
MJ:…sure would be nice if you met me at the station with the car. Hope everything’s-
Answering Machine: (over phone) BEEEP!
Panel Four: MS of MJ is closing her cellphone and pulling her coat tighter with the other hand. She is looking down at her feet, depressed. The bum is shuffling off up the stairs. From the tunnel, odd noises begin to erupt.
MJ: *sigh* Love you.
Sound: SCREECH, SCREECH
Panel Five: Low angle Medium LS of MJ stepping closer to the edge of the platform. Curiousity has taken hold.
MJ: …?
Great Responses
Thank you guys so much for responding, I hope this continues to be a lively and profitable thread. I thought I'd respond to those who have responded thus far, whether or not they are still with us. Here are a couple high lights
I think perhaps my favorite post so far is vesuvius who gives us an indepth look at ethics in dealing with an artist (as a writer). I worked with one artist who told me a horror story, he worked on a project with this one guy and now the character designs he did he can no longer use, or at least the writer threatened to take action if he did. I find that unfair, and I do feel that character designs remain the property of the artist unless you come to terms (usually payment) regarding the use of it. Sadly I've had many artists who have flaked and thus many artists have worked on the same project of mine. It is a policy of mine that I don't show previous character designs, and if I do I do so with the expectation that these designs are only copied thematically rather than reused. In fact after vesuvius's post I double checked an old character design I showed an artist I am working with right now on rescued project. Gladly the two characters are quite different, thank goodness! Another interesting point is copywriting. It is an interesting idea for both the artist and writer to share copywrites to the property they work on. Although my knee-jerk reaction is to say that the character designs and art are the artist's and the story is the writer's, I can imagine it would be frustrating if the writer unceremonious dumps the artist and continues without him or her. Sharing the copyright prevents this. I'm divided on this idea, but it is an interesting one.
The only idea that I probably flat out disagreed with (Though it is a good point) is the point that writers should not rely on e-mail exclusively and should check pms and forum replies. Honestly I have issues with the Zwol forum, I don't get notifications through e-mail and the liiiiiitle number on the top denoting private messages is often easily missed by me. Though I myself do check both, I also realize that the best way to contact me is through e-mail, and I'm sure many other writers have the same issue. Maybe indeed they should say it in a better way then "I WILL NOT CHECK!" and I feel many writers should in general approach their posts as a request letter than a casting call, but I do feel that responding through e-mail for many writers is really the best option.
Best of luck to you all, I hope you don't mind a writer responding to this thread but I felt you all deserved a response.
-Ruyei
Confidence is a determining factor, act like you know what you are doing and you'll be taken seriously. If you aren't a professional, show determination. A confident writer is an inspiring writer and inspiration leads to dedication.
Perhaps the most common response I get (And which I agree with whole heartedly) is for a writer to flesh out their ideas and not rely on the artist contacting them. Interesting suggestions related to this is to give a page long script sample (Which I think is a great idea! I'm going to start doing that when I post!) and of course the second most common theme here which is respect the artist. As in, look for a collaboration rather than the writer being a creative lead. That is one of my defining principles in working with an artist, and I feel that for any writer they should focus on what makes the artist want to come back and continue with the project. Sure payment changes these dynamics, but I do feel that even with payment if an artist feels like a slave that strains relationships anyhow.Artist wants to be assured that their time will not be wasted. Their talents not belittled and they won't get the short end of the stick. When a pitch is made to a potential artist it is best to let the artist know about your plans and benefits (for yourself and the artist) as well as displaying your writing ability.
I think perhaps my favorite post so far is vesuvius who gives us an indepth look at ethics in dealing with an artist (as a writer). I worked with one artist who told me a horror story, he worked on a project with this one guy and now the character designs he did he can no longer use, or at least the writer threatened to take action if he did. I find that unfair, and I do feel that character designs remain the property of the artist unless you come to terms (usually payment) regarding the use of it. Sadly I've had many artists who have flaked and thus many artists have worked on the same project of mine. It is a policy of mine that I don't show previous character designs, and if I do I do so with the expectation that these designs are only copied thematically rather than reused. In fact after vesuvius's post I double checked an old character design I showed an artist I am working with right now on rescued project. Gladly the two characters are quite different, thank goodness! Another interesting point is copywriting. It is an interesting idea for both the artist and writer to share copywrites to the property they work on. Although my knee-jerk reaction is to say that the character designs and art are the artist's and the story is the writer's, I can imagine it would be frustrating if the writer unceremonious dumps the artist and continues without him or her. Sharing the copyright prevents this. I'm divided on this idea, but it is an interesting one.
The only idea that I probably flat out disagreed with (Though it is a good point) is the point that writers should not rely on e-mail exclusively and should check pms and forum replies. Honestly I have issues with the Zwol forum, I don't get notifications through e-mail and the liiiiiitle number on the top denoting private messages is often easily missed by me. Though I myself do check both, I also realize that the best way to contact me is through e-mail, and I'm sure many other writers have the same issue. Maybe indeed they should say it in a better way then "I WILL NOT CHECK!" and I feel many writers should in general approach their posts as a request letter than a casting call, but I do feel that responding through e-mail for many writers is really the best option.
Best of luck to you all, I hope you don't mind a writer responding to this thread but I felt you all deserved a response.
-Ruyei