Curious about payment

[Iceclaw]

I'm a rookie writer that's been working on some scripts and I plan to eventually get an artist and bring my ideas to life but I'm curious. My money situation isn't great right now so...what's the cheapest any artist would be willing to work for? Any answers will help.

[ld-airgrafix]

I think you probably should never let artists know that you "have no money.."
I think its best to post a short synopsis of your book, let artists know what you plan on doing with this book, submit to publisher, self publish etc. Show artists that you are passionate about your book .
Sometimes a well written add can land you a very good artist for cheaper or even collaboration.

[strega guy]

It takes about a day to a day-and-a-half to make a page. What do you make in a day Iceclaw? That's the benchmark where you should set the pricing.

I get responses from writers all the time saying they've gone with another artist (cheaper) only to wind up getting ripped off when I check back on them later. I have been told a number of times by writers who wished they didn't go with x y or z artist because they promised cheaper rates. Usually their dissatisfaction is from the artist quitting on them (after all, they have to eat). And then there's the issue of sinking a TON of money on an artist whose work you no longer have access to, with a half-finished project.

I've NEVER been told by a writer who had quality work that they wish they could've paid less with a cheaper artist.

If an artist is going to commit to your story of, say 22 pages that's about 200 to 500 hours of their time depending if it goes full color. So you're looking at a sizable expenditure. If you can respect what they will go through time wise to make it happen, then you'll get better results.

[Ruyei]

Check out the advice for new writers thread!

Also, here's a thing or two about working and looking an artist. Even if you pay ten bucks a page it makes a differenc even though the standard is 50$ Also, presenting your project goes a long way. Create a project bible which has ALL elements of your project and link to it. If you can sell the artist on a project you can get them that much more productive regardless of pay level.

Sincerely,
Rueyi

[Tzratzk]

Looks strange that the people consider USD 50,00 as "standard price".

Serious European publishing houses offer payments in advance EUR 300-400 per one page, and than they pay royalty after selling the album.

The only problem is that it's not easy to start to collaborate with them.

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Most of the artists that I have had make a proposal to me, and quote me a price got politely refused (though I was laughing my arse off at the money some of them wanted). I'm an amateur trying to get together what I need to go pro. The vast majority of artists on the web, even the ones demanding $20, $30, and $50 a page are also amateurs, and are not capable of returning the value they are asking for. They have simply been brainwashed into "always charge".

Look around, be patient, and understand that what you are looking for is an artist that has taken an honest look at their own work, realises that they need more practice with their art, with sequential art in general, with working from a real script, and with collaboration. They are out there.
Then, you have to convince them that you are going to be as professional as they, and that you bring something to the table that will make both of your work better.

It works. I've lined up 1 artist, and have some conversations going on with two more, just on the strength of the scripts that I have written.

Oh, and be prepared to COLLABORATE! The first time you let YOUR ego get in the way, and treat your artist partner like an employee (especially if you didn't hire them) you're not only out of line, you're out a collaborator. This means that even if you have a 'finished' script, you're going to be doing re-writes and tweaks to make it work for the artist.

Eagle
(Wow, my keyboard just went off on me! I take no responsibility!)

[FaultyMirror]

Brainwashing you say? All the facts say otherwise...

Minimum wage is a little over 10 euros in France and around 7$ in the US (If I am not mistaken). If an artist charges 20 and spends 2-3 hours working on a page. You have a cheap bargain. Further more, a beginning artist usually spends around 5 or 6h on a page because they are doing there best to produce quality work. If you can't afford the going rate, maybe you aren't part of the social class towards which the artists services are directed. Consider changing that.



Here are a few general money related ideas:
- If the pages aren't worth 20, 30 or 50$, then don't take them onto your project. Oh, and, you can laugh at them all you want for trying to put a foot through the door of the industry but, please, keep that to yourself. The trick for an artist is to try charging until their craft is good enough that they can get hired.
- If you want your project to truly be a collaboration, consider compensating them half the minimum wage, minimum.
- If you want to show you are serious about the project you are developing and want to capture the interest of an artist who is capable of bringing it to life, I would advise you save up and invest some real money in it. That's what other serious writers are doing and they have a better chance of stealing your potential collaborator because they are.
- There are more wannabe writers than artists because (and I'm probably extremely biased) it's more work for the artist to reach a professional level than a writer (3-4 years - from scratch - for the fastest learners and up to six for all the other hard workers).

And, in case you didn't know, the fastest way for an artist to get better is to work on his/her fundamentals. That means neglecting sequential work for a while. Time spent on your pet project is time away from some needed practice.


All the best,
Alexander Lidström

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Brainwashing you say? All the facts say otherwise...

Some of this is going to sound harsh. It's not meant to, I am just a blunt person. I could try to fill this with emoticons, but just accept the fact that I bear no animosity towards you and am engaging in debate.
First off, most of your post is not facts, it is your opinion. Opinions differ. The adversarial relationship between artists and writers seems to be something brought on by recent trends in comics, since it didn't exist 20 years ago. But let us journey onwards.

Minimum wage is a little over 10 euros in France and around 7$ in the US (If I am not mistaken). If an artist charges 20 and spends 2-3 hours working on a page. You have a cheap bargain. Further more, a beginning artist usually spends around 5 or 6h on a page because they are doing there best to produce quality work. If you can't afford the going rate, maybe you aren't part of the social class towards which the artists services are directed. Consider changing that.

Know any rich comic book writers? There are a few. Not bloody many, and none starting out. Know any rich comic book artists? Same answers. It's a rather large boat, and we're all in it together.

If the pages aren't worth 20, 30 or 50$, then don't take them onto your project. Oh, and, you can laugh at them all you want for trying to put a foot through the door of the industry but, please, keep that to yourself. The trick for an artist is to try charging until their craft is good enough that they can get hired.

I'm not going to pay for art that's not worth what the person is attempting to charge for it. I do keep the laughter to myself. I am never less than courteous to individuals, and I have seen some very nice art offered to me, and some hideous stuff where the basic technical skills were not even present.
And trying to put your foot in the door is very admirable. I don't laugh at that.
The part that get's me here, is your last sentence. That's so out of whack with the real world, that I call it brainwashing. I've never been in a field where that was a legitimate tactic. You charge what you are worth, and if you are just starting out, that is little or nothing. So what makes an artist (in your eyes) different than a writer, a web developer, a firefighter, or a game designer?

If you want your project to truly be a collaboration, consider compensating them half the minimum wage, minimum.

If I'm paying them, it's not a collaboration, it's work for hire. If it's a collaboration, then we are getting paid, together, when the project pays.

If you want to show you are serious about the project you are developing and want to capture the interest of an artist who is capable of bringing it to life, I would advise you save up and invest some real money in it. That's what other serious writers are doing and they have a better chance of stealing your potential collaborator because they are.

Support that. Where are these 'serious' writers getting the front money to pay artists? Name three. With links, please. Not vanity projects, but people trying to break into the industry.

- There are more wannabe writers than artists because (and I'm probably extremely biased) it's more work for the artist to reach a professional level than a writer (3-4 years - from scratch - for the fastest learners and up to six for all the other hard workers).

Allow me to agree with your first statement, and disagree with your causality. It's just as much work to become a good writer as a good artist. I do both, and there really is not much a difference in the learning curve.
However, my opinion is that it's harder to fool yourself into thinking you're a good artist than it is a good writer. The biggest failing I see in webcomics is not the art, but the writing. This is, IMNSHO, due to the fact that writing as an art (even comic writing) is seen as being easy, so people think if they can use proper grammar, understand the spellcheck, and type in complete sentences, they are a writer. This is akin to someone drawing a box with a ruler and thinking they're an artist.

And, in case you didn't know, the fastest way for an artist to get better is to work on his/her fundamentals. That means neglecting sequential work for a while. Time spent on your pet project is time away from some needed practice.

That's the way for any craftsperson to improve their craft. Axiomatic.

All the best,
Alexander Lidström

And to you.

EDIT: This is a good article on the subject by some one much more eloquent (and a paid professional) than I. I think you might find it interesting. http://kisforkomics.com/2015/04/08/what ... mment-4492

Eagle
I like reasoned debates, but ignore flames. Asbestos BVDs!)