Advice for New Writers here

[liminalsoup]

I don't really agree that anyone can learn to draw, or learn to write. I spent years trying to learn how to draw well. I even went to art college for a few months. I can do abstract stuff, but I can't draw realistically, even tho I can picture it in my mind exactly. My wife is different, she can draw any photograph you give her perfectly, but she can't draw from her imagination.

Writing was pretty much the last art form i tried, because in school i always did bad in english class and my teachers always thought I was useless.

But I understand writing, i understand symbolism, i understand plot & characterization. I know the cliches, and how to avoid them. And i have a very active imagination. If i can't draw what i see in my mind, at least i can describe it. So weird, despite trying to hard to be an artist all my life, i ended up a writer.

If you are a person who can do everything well and can pick up any talent just by studying it then i envy you greatly. But for me, i will have to be satisfied just being a writer.

[emocort]

thats true, but it boils down to proper instruction, I went to a government approved art college and the teachers there dont know how to draw compared to an atelier. art schools focus on expression and if you even mention the words "proper technique" they pretty much rape you and say that you dont need it to produce "real art".

the point i tried making earlier is that when you are iindie you need to cut out as many middle people as possible, why share your profit (if any) with an artist or writer that isnt that great and you could do just a good of a job yourself or better? The main point being, you can be totally self-reliant if you want to be. its your choice.

[Ruyei]

I do agree that anyone can learn to draw with the right initiative and instruction. Like a Liminality I didn't start with any "talent" but worked my butt for a few years. It all comes down to practice and a little money for a tutor or schooling. Still, I know from my experience that it's very difficult to juggle multiple crafts. I am both a prose writer and a script writer and have trouble sometimes finding time for both. There is the risk of you being mediocre in both rather than strong in each craft. Still, at one point I did strongly consider learning to draw. However I chose to learn Japanese instead and I haven't regretted since.

You have a point regarding cutting out the middleman emocort but it's very difficult to juggle all these crafts and skills. Definitely expert mode for any creator.

Sincerely
Ruyei

[emocort]

i posted this in the artists thread but writers might get some helpful hints out of it too.

everyone should check out this link to BOOMs artists submission page and read the TIP OF THE WEEK comments they posted. They are pretty helpful and so far have given the most amount of free info outside of darkhorse on the submission process.

https://www.facebook.com/BoomStudiosArtistSubmissions

[NComics]

Well, if writers end up hiring an artist that 'is not that great', it only means two things:
1) the artist is not paid at all, or
2) he's given a few pennies here and there, or unlikely profit shares or back end deals

So it all comes to this -- you get what you pay for.

And what I really hate are the 'so called' artists that are willing to work for free. It has always bugged me. And I'll never work with a writer who wants me to work for free. Cause they may not understand that the comic artist IS a work, exactly like the other ones -- and you actually end up working much more than 8 hours a day, weekends included. But for most people, we comic artist are just having fun all day! YAY!....

There are only two situations where I approve that someone draws for free -- when the ASPIRING artist is still working his way to the field and making experience (so he's not a pro yet), or when a big company or a big name writer offers him a VERY good project and a very good reason to not be paid a page rate right away, knowing anyway that he's gonna be compensated for his work in the future, gaining popularity off that project as well.

I am a professional comic artist, I charge the MINIMUM that the average companies/pro artists charge (just enough to survive), but still, most of the time I get contacted by writers who praise me for my work but then disappear right after I tell them that I do not work for free or I show them my rates.

I'm kind of happy that they actually disappear, cause that tells me right away that they are not professionals and that they do not really believe in the project they have, cause if they did, they would have been willing to spend a few hundred bucks to at least create a pitch to send to publishers OR the base for a Kickstarter project.

After years in the field, I'm really losing the confidence to find other good partners, among the writers, in the comic field. I love working on creator owned books, and really create something new and different, but I'm getting tired of the average writer who contacts me to ask me to be his slave or that stops the project right before the start or when half the work is already done. Now I'd much rather work for a serious publisher and stop being fooled around.

I understand that most writers can't afford an artist, but I'm not buying a car if I can't afford it either.
The problem here is that there should be a difference between amateur/let's-have-fun writers-artist and the professionals.
Cause what ends up happening in the end is pro artists that get sick of the amateur writer who wants him to work for free AND writers who end up with bad artists that are not good nor professional in their work ethics, getting then screwed over by them, just because these kind of forums are mostly filled with amateurs.

The bottom line is: if you, writer, are serious about what you want to do and have confidence in your project, then you will be able to save a few hundred dollars (cause that's what you're gonna have to invest for this, working with a professional artist) to at least create a pitch, or start a Kickstarter project, if you don't wish to jump right into the production of the full comic.

This is not a guarantee that you will succeed with your comic, but in this field there is not such a thing. You have to try.

But as long as there are artists out there who work for free or for pennies, the real good artists will be ditched by the writers because they will end up believe that those artists are asking for too much money, while they can get others (the poor-skilled artists) for much, much less or for free.

But pay attention -- what do you writers get in the end (if the artist doesn't dump you after a while)? You end up with a comic that won't very likely ever be published, if not in free form, online or things like this, because the final quality is not in line with the comics that actually do get published. In the end, was it worth it? YES if you are an amateur writer or if you want to do it for free, just to 'have fun', and NO if you are a pro.

Then, as someone said, you could always teach yourself how to draw..... heh, well, it doesn't really work this way. Finch could have even learned in a little while, but that means that he already had the talent in him and the passion to keep it on. It doesn't work this way for everybody. Same goes in learning how to write, skying or playing ping pong.

We're not talking about learning how to draw a cute Spiderman, we're talking about doing all the work that in movies is done by dozens of people -- you have to visually create EVERYTHING, create the scenography, get the cast and create the characters, choose the right lights to create atmosphere, be the costume designer, director of photography, you have to make your characters act... EVERYTHING. It's not a matter of how well you draw. A comic artist is not (only) a pin up artist, but there's much more behind it. But most 'writers' think that's not worth their money anyway, so...

Let me sum it up -- you really think that you've written a very good story? Then all you have to do is saving money and find a professional artist -- I assure you that there are SO MANY pros that are looking for a serious job out there, but, like me, they have lots of troubles, because the writers prefer to go the simple way and throw away a few dollars on less talented and unprofessional artists and in the end, get a mediocre product that they won't even be able to sell.

Do you want an example of what I'm talking about?

"The Pariah" is one of the best projects I happened to work on.
The writer contacted me in a very polite and professional way, presenting me both, his project and his persona too, so that I could get an idea of who I was talking with -- just the way I like it.

The project got me interested and I could feel that the writer (even if he never published any comic before) sounded professional (and 'professional' doesn't really mean that you work in the field so you're a pro -- you're a pro if you know what you are doing. Period.).

So we talked about money, expecting to get ditched right away, because... well, I explained you already -- but instead, he agreed with my rates and talked about it to find a deal, and then we jumped right into it -- I created a few character designs based on his descriptions, and then I've done six pages from the amazing script that he got me and that was it.

He then pitched it to a few publishers, and at our surprise, most of them got back to us, so we just had to take our pick.
After that, the writer wanted to get back on it right away and continue the book.

I ended up penciling and inking 3 issues out of six. Not because I dumped the job, but simply because the writer is now getting together a family, so he just doesn't have the money to keep it on. That is a shame, because the story, in my opinion is amazingly well written and the final result was very good and just waiting to be published. In addition, I love that book so much. But I can't even work on it years and not getting a penny -- how could I buy me stuff to eat?

I still hope that the writer gets back to me and we can continue where we stopped. I simply miss working on that comic.

You can have a peek at it right here, so you understand what you can get when you pay the right artist for your book and not just get the first random cheap one that you find: https://www.facebook.com/ThePariahComic

That said, I hope that you don't find any of the things I told offensive in any way. I'm just very tired of all this, also because I'm in the situation of quitting the comic business soon, if things don't change, hoping to find a 'normal' job that finally makes me able to have a human life (paid with money and not with promises).

[Ruyei]

I think the problem Ncomics is not so much that writers simply are "cheap" as much as for many people (including myself!) investing a few hundred dollars into anything is almost an impossibility. Not to mention the writers that maybe can do this but simply are just putting their foot in the door. Sure you need money to start many a money making venture, like a business. But do you start a business without experience or knowing it's for you? Not really, you might work at someone else's store for a while. In that same sense that's why I STRONGLY encourage writers to simply offer themselves off as freelancers to help artists on pet projects of the artist's own devising.

In short, there are a lot of first time writers out there looking for their first book. Spending several hundred dollars at a project that one simply knows nothing about is downright silly in my opinion, though truthfully I agree with you that if the writer has the money and is dedicated they should invest. But I'm a little tired of people on this forum saying how "terrible" writers are for not having hundreds of dollars to spend on something they're often just trying out for size. If a writer can afford it yeah, pay for an artist. I know I would myself if I had a steady job and wasn't in college, which is a money DRAIN.

So please, let amateurs be amateurs and don't call them out for their shortcomings.
Sincerely,
Ruyei

[NComics]

That's actually what I said -- amateur writers should pair up with amateur artists -- as I said, that is one of the few exceptions I agree on, why an artist should work for free -- to build up their skills and learn more and more.

I simply 'complain' of the fact that these forums mostly attracts amateurs and so, it's difficult to find professionals to work with and people that don't tell you how crazy you are to charge more than $10 a page.

So again, amateurs writers should keep on collaborating with aspiring artist and build things up, but the serious ones, if they BELIEVE in the work they have done, will be able to INVEST in something they have created. And we are talking about hundreds of dollars, less than a thousand, not millions -- if you're not a teenager, living off your parents' money, you will be able to get that money. It may take you a while saving, but isn't that something we always do for what we desire? And of course, you don't do that if you're not convinced that your work is strong.

Quoting: "Spending several hundred dollars at a project that one simply knows nothing about is downright silly in my opinion" -- well, thats why you are paying a pro artist -- to create the best work possible out of what you've written. I think that 'silly' is thinking to get a decent artist that will make your work stand out paying him with only compliments.

Let's make a distinction -- amateurs don't need to be paid cause they are simply trying to learn and eventually break in --professionals need to be paid to survive because that is their work, and they won't be able to work if they don't have the money to eat. They'd be better off with another work then.

[emocort]

Most if not all the people on this forum are going to stay at the amatuer level forever and never go pro because they are either not willing to learn more to help themselves out or unwilling to pay. They say they have no money but im willing to be they are sipping on a vente while typing it. They say they cant do or have no time to do A,B, or C yet will watch tv or waste time like im doing right now on this forum trying to add my 5cents when they could be working on going pro. But they wont, we all know that.

[Ruyei]

Then I agree with you N. I tell those looking for free all the time that hey won't get pro stuff if they don't pay.

I would pay if I could, but sadly like I said I'm losing money right now rather than gaining it. Still, saving a little money for a pitch comic isn't out of the realm of possibility for me cause I do have a teensy bit of money. You're right in that scrimping and saving can add up to a lot emocort.

But yeah I understand your frusteration N.
Sincerely,
Kagaenod

[Ruyei]

Figured a lot of you writers here would appreciate this.

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Figured a lot of you writers here would appreciate this.

I just got through with a rather intense discussion about this topic on another forum. It's akin to a religious discussion, and can get rather heated and hypocritical.

Eagle
(Does this one pop up everywhere?)

[Ruyei]

Well honestly this thread has gone through a lot of mods, I'm guessing you're referring to its most recent topic being free or not to free. Although it is an important topic, the true face of this thread (or what I would like to be its true face) is advice for starting out writers. There's quite a lot of info on this thread, mostly about how to properly pitch your stuff to artists (as a writer) and also some tidbits on how to write. This thread was created to inform writers who are coming into writing for comics for the first time to properly pitch their work, and then to properly write it. Anyone would tips I feel would find an eagerly awaiting audience.

Sincerely,
Ruyei

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Well honestly this thread has gone through a lot of mods, I'm guessing you're referring to its most recent topic being free or not to free. Although it is an important topic, the true face of this thread (or what I would like to be its true face) is advice for starting out writers. There's quite a lot of info on this thread, mostly about how to properly pitch your stuff to artists (as a writer) and also some tidbits on how to write. This thread was created to inform writers who are coming into writing for comics for the first time to properly pitch their work, and then to properly write it. Anyone would tips I feel would find an eagerly awaiting audience.

Sincerely,
Ruyei

You are correct. I read the first page of posts, then the last page, and skipped the middle page. There is good information in there.
Honestly, writing for comics is the hardest writing I have ever done. I'm speaking of preparing a script for print, not web here. On the web, a lot of the rules fly out the window since you no longer have page constraints, nor the placement of odd/even pages to worry about.
However, one thing is the same for both versions of the medium. Once you think you've got a good script, tear it down and tighten it up some more. That is the biggest thing I have noticed about webcomics, is most stories are very loose, and feel like they are being written a page at a time.

Eagle
(Who's lucky to get a page a day done)

[emocort]

I came across something interesting that writers(new and old) could do. Im reading "bakuman" vol.1 and in between chapters it shows a few sample storyboards of the variius pages, now what is interesting is that the writer of the manga does the first storyboard and then passes it onto the artist to do a better storyboard of those pages and shows those to the writer until they agree on layout and word balloons. Basically, the writer is more hands on during the creative process, the storyboards are just that, they arent finished works of art but they will help the writer to understand that their 10 lines of dialogue simply wont fit into 1 small panel. If the pros are doing this, so should you, it will help bridge the gap and bring artists and writers together vs the war that we see every day on this forum.

[Ruyei]

Been there tried that, I planned on learning storyboarding and as a pre-emptive strike I started drawing the panel layouts. The artists I worked with weren't happy with that, said that it made them lose some creative expression.

Any artists who do like that?
-Ruyei

[emocort]

storyboarding is hard and it takes a lot of practice and know-how, mainly its all about camera angles and making a boring scene as interesting as possible.
storyboarding is also a quick way to rule out any problems before you start to actually draw. The creator/writer/artist for NARUTO sometimes spends 6days doing his storyboarding/writing and then draws out (with the help of assistants) 14 pages of finished art on the 7th day to meet his deadline, sure he wants to kill himself when that happens but you gotta do what you gotta do to make the best.

You see so much crap out there and its all because of of the" 6 P's".

Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

also, i cant remember the writers name, he was famous and he said " the first draft of any thing is shit" ..coulda been H.G.wells?
steven king is another who is great to learn from, but good writing is good writing.

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

I've been working my ass off to get the latest page of The Shadow War out, so I've not been posting really heavy. Now I have a lot of things to catch up on.

PREPARE FOR A WALL OF TEXT!
(There will be no TL;DR, either suck it up and read it, or don't answer)

I gotta say this. It's been bugging me for over a month now, and I keep on running into the wall that is this problem face first. It also identifies the problems I am having reading most webcomics. Even some of the ones I like suffer from this.

The writers have no fucking clue what they are doing!

I've come to accept the fact that most webcomic writers are lousy writers. In fact, the ratio of bad writing compared to bad art in webcomics is at least 3:1.

The reason? The people writing webcomics have a story to tell, but they can't be bothered to learn simple things such as how to tell the story. What Emocourt said about the 6 Ps (though I learned it as Proper Planning Prevents Piss-Poor Performance) should be basic to any webcomic, yet most of these things are written at the time the page is produced. There is no plan, no outline, no real plot, and no theme.

Writing is a skill. One can not simply slap words on a screen and call it writing. There are things that have to be learned, and the learning curve is not shallow. What makes a good post, e-mail, or business letter makes for lousy writing. A person's imagination at coming up with worlds, characters, and situations does not make them a writer. The ability to use the rules of grammar, spelling, and string together complete sentences does not make a person a writer.

And yet, the number of people who not only think they can write, but think they write well, is scary. I have a webcomic I am reading that is in the top 20 on two different large weblists, the guy is making his living writing and drawing this title, and his writing sucks golf balls through garden hoses. He rocks like John Denver (google him, you bunch of youngsters). Why am I still reading him? The title makes me laugh. He's funny, and the title is funny most of the time, but the slow pacing of the story would have driven me away long ago if I wasn't reading through the archives instead of waiting for the next page. I'm 190 pages in, and honestly, most of the characters are still broad stereotypes, and I know nothing about them, nor honestly do I care about them. He could go G.R.R.M. on them, and I wouldn't care. The strip's only saving grace has been that it's funny enough for me to keep reading.

And frankly, if I had better options, I would drop it immediately. If I hadn't read everything that Comicmad.com had on it, I wouldn't be trying to get my comic fix that way.

And he admits that he's making it up as he goes along. I'm in a thread on another forum on word balloons, and how difficult they are. I was expecting it to be on the fine art (mostly a dead art) of properly placing word balloons, and the interaction between artists and authors on getting the fine points of the flow of the story down. Nope. The thread confused me at first until I realised that most of the people in the thread were not even working from a completed script, and that some of them were even proud of that. They were worried about the word balloons covering up the pretty artwork.

Think on that for a moment. One even said that he was using fewer and fewer words in his comics, and was hoping to cut them out totally.

Comics need to be planned. They need to have a roadmap, a guide, a ranger in the wilderness.
They need to be edited. Most of the webcomics I have tried to read have been hot messes of exposition, stereotypical characters, slow plots, side plots (as opposed to legitimate subplots) and lousy pacing.
They need to be tighter. The lack of a plan results in looseness that is not fun for the reader. Anything that does not advance the plot, characters, or theme needs to be cut. Good luck with that. I have had people get emotional over whether or not a story needs a theme. Yeah. Without a theme, your story has no skeleton, since the plot hangs on the theme in a properly crafted story.

I apologise for the WOT, I just had to get that off my chest, and did not realise how much until I started typing.

Eagle
(I'm not even going to read over that again)

[Ruyei]

Okay Eagle-NO-Earth, first off you are very "angry" in your posts, often saying "I say what I say, if you're offended than take it somewhere else" which is not a very good way to state your opinion. Your opinion should be structured in such a way to facilitate discussion, not flame wars.

That said, you do make some good points. A lot of webcomics are simply hobby projects where writers or artist/writer put together the least possible amount of effort in order to create their stories. But let me make an argument for such "bad" webocmics to exist.

What do popular webcomics StarPower, ErfWorld, and Cucumber Quest all have in common? They are not the first webcomics the creator has done. Many of the best webcomics are the result of years and experience, and a lot of their first works simply aren't that good just like a lot of long running webcomics have piss-poor beginnings that become much more structured as the years tick by. These writers are learning in their own way, and the best way to do so is by actually writing and putting their stuff out there. Sure some people are not going to bother to improve and they should be looked over and forgotten till they have an incentive to do better, but the idea that some people shouldn't even try is a dangerous thought. Aside from that I agree with all of your points regarding why planning is so important. Also I don't think it's "TL" myself, but then again I'm a reader, such things are fine by me.

Sincerely,
Ruyei

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Ruyei,

Ok, the preceding post was the first one that I have posted on this forum, and only the second I have posted where anyone can legitimately say that I was in my emotions. The emotion in both cases was frustration, not anger. I can understand why this one sounded angry, but that wasn't my emotion. As to your generalisation that I am often that way, I am a blunt person, and that sometimes gets mistaken for a lot of things, but no, I am not an angry person, so please don't get that impression (the funny thing here is that I have other people telling me that they like the way I am always calm and rational). Different people read posts in different ways.

Second, I do not have that attitude, and have never used those words, or words to that effect, with the single exception of the comment about TL:DR in the preceding post. I enjoy a good debate. Rational and reasoned, as several threads on this board will show.

As a side note, I was away from the web for several years, and when I got back, TL;DR had popped up. I can't think of anything ruder in a medium where all communication is done by the printed word, and I knew that was going to be a long post.

On to the meat of your post. Your argument is charitable, but I believe misplaced. We can automatically exclude all webcomics that are improving. They don't count for the purposes of this discussion, since they are doing what they should be doing. Their creators are using this to grow, expand their skills, fill in for their shortcomings, and put out a better comic.

Part of the problem is that a LOT (I would say 60-80% of the comics I have read) only improve on the art. The writing at the end of 100 pages is just as bad as it was at first, but oh my, the pictures are pretties. If I wanted that I would buy an artbook, or go look at DeviantArt. I want sequential art. STORIES! I read comics due to the fact that you can do things with the medium that you can't do with any other, and money for actors, special effects, and locations does not mean anything. The only thing limiting is your imagination, and your artist's ability to put it on paper.

By the way, at no point did I say, imply, or even leave the impression open that someone shouldn't try. That's contrary to the whole point of webcomics. In fact, I am arguing the opposite. PLEASE TRY! If you are a sole creator, please put at least as much thought into improving your writing as you are improving your artwork. Learn the rules and techniques of writing the way you learned the rules and techniques of art. For that matter, learn to plan your writing the same way you plan your artwork. There are a lot of writers around that would love to help. Just ask!

I'm going to tell you a secret. Good writing and bad art will get you further in comics than good art and bad writing will.

Look, my art isn't great, by any stretch, nor is my writing, but I keep working at both.

Eagle
(Not even the least bit frustrated this time)

[Ruyei]

Thanks for the correction. I still bring forth my opinion that your writing is aggressive, but that may stem from the fact that so many of your posts stem from opposing someone's viewpoint or attacking a particular group.

Thanks for clarifying, I made some assumptions that seem to be inaccurate> Thanks for being more clear. I guess I don't read as many webcomics as I should, I tend to stick with my favorite 25 and not really experiment . But I should make a point of a host of comics that are known for their attitude and art rather than their story. Among them are many the classic Mad Magazine comics, like Den I believe it's called? But yes, there is a big audience for style over substance and that does seem to stem from an artist working on his own. Yosh! and the Dreamworld chronicles are examples that come to mind. It's one of the reasons I'm often that a lot of artists make webcomics on their own without consulting a writer, but then again it all comes to I think that many of them are simply doing it for fun. For one thing doing everythign yourself results in a more personal project. I write prose so I know what they're talking about

I personally think that there are many good webcomics out there that are pretty smart, like Twilight Lady, Gaia, and Dresden Codak (which has AMAZING art). But then again I have my blinders on. I don't see the chaos that you see by trying new comics, I simply stick with what I like.

We should compare notes You seem to be far more knowledgable than I am about webcomics, or at least what is trending. I really should do some hardcore research one of these days.

Sincerely and with apologies,
Ruyei

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

Ruyei,

As stated, I am blunt. It's one of my faults and my strengths. A person is never in doubt as to where they stand with me. It's one of the things that has landed me life-long friends, but it can sometimes take a moment to figure out that I am not typing in anger, or in an attempt to provoke, but rather am laying out what I believe to be cogent arguments. I also don't take any of this personally. I'm here for one reason, I love comics. I'm 51 years old, and was reading my first comics at 4.

I see problems within comics in general, and webcomics in particular (and Yes, Emocourt, I am going to get back into that thread sitting over there). My personal goal is to poduce the best product that I can. Something unique, original, and entertaining. Now, my stories aren't for everyone, but I work on them, editing, re-writing, studying techniques. I practice. Same with my art, I have had to learn a whole new style, and new computer programmes to do what I am doing now.

I'm having fun! I feel young! This is the most enjoyable thing I have done since the world was young.

I have a minor problem in being a speed reader. I usually have 2-4 webcomics open, since I can read them at a reasonable rate while the connection cycles. This means my Comic Rocket list is constantly growing, and you just gave me a few more to add to it.

Comics are a wonderful medium. They are capable of doing things that no other medium can do. Not even film. Look at the problems in adapting certain comics to the screen, live action, CGI, or animation. Comics can slow and speed time, they can let the reader linger on highly detailed art, or speed him along with careful visual pushes. Due to the melding of the visual with the written word, they can invoke far more emotion than either can on their own.
And I hold things to a very high standard. That is; show me something better. Grow, and let me grow with you as I read. Try to show me what you're seeing in your creation. And when you fail, try again. I have little patience for people who only improve in one narrow part of the field, and will drop that title once I see it's stuck. And there are a lot of them that are stuck.
I've read at least the first 20 pages of 200 or so webcomics in the last 2 months. And there have been some good ones, and some horrors. Strangely, some of the ones I have liked the most have had mediocre writing, and barely adequate art, but there was a heart to the story that just pleased me. I can't wait to see what they become.

Gods, I just gushed all over the keyboard up there, didn't I? And that's what frustrates me, is that this could be so much better.

Eagle
(Got a script to write, and layouts to do)

[emocort]

ya, good writing and bad art usually works, look at JEFF LEMIRE's "sweet tooth", the art is stylized but not great but since the storytelling is top-notch it doesnt matter that the art comes 2nd.

it all boils down to "good storytelling", dont think of it as writing any more, its storytelling. new writers need to read good books written by good authors in order to learn how to tell stories, read up on how those authors got started and what they did to succeed at writing better. dont just read comics, a lot of the new comics are written poorly anyway and you wont learn anything from them cough*howard the duck*

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

ya, good writing and bad art usually works, look at JEFF LEMIRE's "sweet tooth", the art is stylized but not great but since the storytelling is top-notch it doesnt matter that the art comes 2nd.

it all boils down to "good storytelling", dont think of it as writing any more, its storytelling. new writers need to read good books written by good authors in order to learn how to tell stories, read up on how those authors got started and what they did to succeed at writing better. dont just read comics, a lot of the new comics are written poorly anyway and you wont learn anything from them cough*howard the duck*

I assume you are NOT speaking of the original Steve Gerber Howard. Those were well done. Classics. New stuff. Meh.
New writers also need to learn the craft of writing for comics. It's a specific medium with it's own visual language. Read McCloud's books, and the writing books by Eisner, Peter David, Alan Moore, and Bendis. Learn why comics work the way they do. Then read writing books by other authors. Learn literary criticism, and apply it to what you read.
And anyone who thinks that the writing is easier than the art is doing the writing wrong.

Eagle
(who does both)

[emocort]

I had another piece of advice. new writers need to think of things that havent been done before. The author of the JACK REACHER series said that when he was coming up with his hero for his series he thought of what other types of heroes existed at the time and what was popular and he came up with a rule: IF YOU SEE A BANDWAGON, YOU ARE TOO LATE TO GET ON IT. Meaning, if you are planning on writing another zombie apocalypse story because TWD is doing so well, its too late, dont bother, do something that no one else is doing right now. or at the very east, write the fucking zombie story from the zombies perspective, no ones done that before...Izombie doesnt count cause shes not a full on zombie and eats brains to hold off on going "full zombie".