Advice for New Writers here

[emocort]

wrong thread dude.

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

NINJ'D by Emocort!

My new story is far very longer than my first idea. But i won't explain it, until i actually get someone interested. I am not familiar with Manga requirements, or the Japanese culture. I usually make up the story as i go adding words i think sound cool. Im still learning. PLEASE MANGA ARTIST PLEASE REPLY IF INTERESTED.

Really the wrong thread to be posting this on. You need to start a new thread, but before you do, I am going to give you some unsolicited advice.

First off, you can't get someone interested unless you are doing one of two things. Waving money around, or explaining your idea. Take your pick, but the only two ways to get an artist is pay them, or excite them.
Second, Please, please, please, do more than make up the story as you go. Learn the skill of writing, and write well. That requires a plan. That means things such as some sort of outline/written plot, in addition to the script. One of the things that artists value is a concrete story with a full script. Now, they are going to have all sorts of suggestions for how to improve it from a visual standpoint, but they are artists. That's what they do, and you should listen to them. But please, I physically cringed when I saw the words "make up the story as I go". I have read far too many of those on the web, and they all feel like they were made up as the artist went.

Eagle
(Writing is a craft, just like art)

[MrEvilside]

Hey guys, I have some more questions about the contract and stuff. Who writes it (the 'employer' or the writer), in case you get hired for a paid job? After it is written, both sign it, they keep one copy each, and that's about it, isn't it? Sorry if my questions sound dumb, I am new to this and I want to make sure I am doing everything the right way.

[emocort]

usually the employer would write the contract and then you can add to it if you want as long as the other agrees. then you would sign it, scan it and send it to the other party so you know its been signed. if you cant scan it then you can agree via email or something that proves you agreed. basically when it comes to amateurs doing contracts, it rarely works out for the best. get paid every 5 pages and that will build trust on both sides.

[MrEvilside]

usually the employer would write the contract and then you can add to it if you want as long as the other agrees. then you would sign it, scan it and send it to the other party so you know its been signed. if you cant scan it then you can agree via email or something that proves you agreed. basically when it comes to amateurs doing contracts, it rarely works out for the best. get paid every 5 pages and that will build trust on both sides.

Thank you for being so helpful!

[emocort]

How do you( the writer) write your script? Do you just start writing your story then break it down into a script afterwards or do you go right into scripting? How many times do you revise? And for the odd few who are doing or have done a graphic novel (100+ pages) how do you do it?

[Ruyei]

Ah long form comics.

First let me correct you Emocort, Graphic Novels "Officially" according to publishers can be 65+ . Man, let me start with a blast from the past.

My first graphic novel...yikes...I got a guy who wanted a comic focusing on a story about mid 30's Hollywood with...Dracula director Todd Browning going around biting nubile young women with prosthetic vampire teeth. And yes, I was desperate for experience at the time and was doing this for free. Interestingly enough I was almost fired from this project since I was used to working on project pitches at the time, and thus was used to working rather slowly for artists who would be very slow to catch up. Writing a 12 page script around a month understandable ate at this guy and he essentially said "I can't stand this, you're off the project" to which I said "Give me a week and I'll finish your graphic novel." Haha, on top of school I wrote 35 or so pages of script in three days. I'm still rather proud of that, and I got good work out of it too in my personal opinion.

Anyway, about the process. I know it's written a lot about how "Planning is good" and "Impromptu is bad" but I really like the concept of inspiration at the moment. The beat poets were famous for this, writing drafts of novels while on the crapper and although these were often edited afterwards I do beleive in the flow of the story being best channeled in the moment. But yeah, as the project was developed we went through multiple outlines, with the final outline saying everything in a nutshell. The outline was followed rather to the letter.

Then (and you're going to bust on me) I just wrote it. With everything planned out all that was left were the details and of course the themes were all set. I had done some research about Todd Browning and a maybe a little about the period and my imagination ran wild to good affect. Really what outlines are for is to provide the mold and then for one's natural creativity to provide the substance. I wrote a good initial draft (though under the 65 page mark) but then that's when hell broke loose.

Now I didn't mention how I "saved" the project. I focused on a different serial murderer with Browning being the surprise second man, with the story having a focus on the "modern" woman entering the work force and the serial killer being a traditionalist making his stand by killing women who should "know their place". Browning's story came in to establish the second theme, that of movies as a "dream machine" which in the killer's place served to allow him a model for the "perfect man" which he tries to emulate. It was a pretty good structure and the "buyer" liked it a great deal.

However he took the draft and simply said "I'll take it from here." I guess if this had been a paid project I wouldn't have minded, but the guy rewrote my piece almost entirely, taking away my old-timey style and going for a more modern style. It wasn't bad, but I felt like my personal touch had been taken away. He also changed a few of my favorite scenes such as where the killer approaches a "perfect" woman alone and is rejected (the artist changed it so the woman was accompanied by people who did the rejection for her) and the ending where the killer is captured to a shot-gun heavy final shoot out between the killer and police (which I felt was very generic and ruined the tone). The piece wasn't ever drawn to my knowledge either and I never heard back from the artist again after that, total highway robbery! But it gave me an excuse to write my first graphic novel and for that I guess it was alright?

Still, although I've written several other scripts since I always remember how I did it first.

-Ruyei

[emocort]

ya i guess it makes sense, just start off writing and get the ideas down for your first draft to develop the story and then scripting can come later and be the 2nd or 3rd draft. scripting is supposed to be the final written product so that would come last for me.

[Eagle-NO-Earth]

This is my workflow. Mind you, this is a traditional way of doing things, and shouldn't be taken as gospel. On the other hand, there are a lot of comics out there that would benefit from a better writing process.

Everything I do is based on the page count. In my case, since I am aiming for print publication, that's going to be 22 pages, although I am working on some 5-15 page shorts.

I start with a page for notes. This is mixed in with other stories I am working on, but I usually do multiple projects at a time. On this page, I am going to establish the 5 elements of fiction: Characters, setting, plot, theme and conflict. This is one of the things that most amateur writers skip, and it should not be done. It's like trying to draw without understanding perspective, anatomy, and composition. Without those 5 questions answered, the writing goes no farther. I also attempt to cover the plot points and character beats I want for that issue.

The next stage is taken when I feel like the notes have the bones of a story. I take 22 unlined notecards, and number them. These are my pages and I will start with a single sentence about what happens on that page. It might be a quote that I want in the dialog. One that I'm writing now has the single sentence "I can tell you the truth". It's the last page of the issue, and it's a setup for the next issue, but regardless of what else is on that page, that's the sentence that describes the whole page for me.
This is actually a fun stage for me, since I use the front of the card to figure dialog, and the back to do panel layouts. I can also rearrange the order to move scenes around, or even remove them and replace them.
This is also the first editing stage. Anything that doesn't advance the plot, theme, or characters gets trashed here. Some of the scenes get saved for a future issue. I've had one scene that started out in the first issue of The Shadow War, then got moved to the second issue, and is currently the last 3 pages of the third issue, which is in the notecard phase right now.

The final stage is taking my stack of cards and turning it into a script. Most of it's already laid out by this time, but now I can type it into a coherent whole, and do another edit.

Eagle
(Odd, but it works)

[emocort]

Thanks for the info. Im going to give the cards a try after i get my first draft written and switch over to scripting, it would be good too cause its also storyboarding at the same time cause of the panel layouts.