Privision

Martinibianco · Post by **Martinibianco** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 11:45 am

Okay, I'm new to this board and if this has already been brought up then forgive me for not reading every post

I work for a big big media company and just had a call from these guys, trying to get us on board: http://www.privision.de

Sorry, it's all in German, but the jist is this: Users pay for online content through their phone/web access bill. They have to download this little app which monitors which sites they're visiting. If the app detects a participating site, the clock starts ticking, and the relevant amount of money is then added to their phone bill. The reverse is also possible, i.e. dial-up users can have their costs reimbursed by a participating site.

The company's CEO, a Herr Schneider, told me that they've patented the system globally, but that for the time being the only telecoms company they've struck a deal with is Deutsche Telekom.

I think this idea is perfect for online comics, especially in view of Scott's latest ICST.

Again, apologies if this has already been discussed.

NatGertler · Post by **NatGertler** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 12:21 pm

Paying by-the-view is awkward enough. I can't see paying by-the-second, trying to read a strip as fast as possible to save money...

damonk13 · Post by **damonk13** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 1:20 pm

Hmm... i think that time-based payments are very tricky and risky...

like previously stated, it would almost encourage people to read fast, or to download the image onto their HD as quickly as possible, so as to be able to read it later at their leisure...

when i consider how naturally slow a reader i am, wanting to look at each panel and all its details, i'd be afraid to be losing a lot of the experience if i felt i had to rush myself, or wonder if i'm literally "spending" too much time on a comic...

an interesting idea, but not one that i think would be optimal for webcomics

[edited because i can't type]

_________________
frank "damonk" cormier
<a href="http://framed.keenspace.com/">FRAMED!!!</a>

[ This Message was edited by: damonk13 on 2001-06-26 13:23 ]

Max Leibman · Post by **Max Leibman** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:17 pm

Still, there is a bit of potential for similar ideas.

There are already services (mostly porn sites) that will place charges on your phone bill, rather than billing a credit card. And phone companies can (and do) bill for services that are sold in discrete units (*69 in the U.S., for example, which I think is a $.30 charge per use where I live). So one wouldn't have to charge for time to utilize a phone-bill add-on system.

If an internet content provider (or group of them) were to partner with an established company use an existing billing system (phone, cable, ISPs, etc.), we could probably have a billable micropayment infrastructure up in no time.

-Max Leibman

[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 14:18 ]

Martinibianco · Post by **Martinibianco** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:24 pm

Agreed, these and other objections were amongst those I raised in my discussions with this company.

Time is not the only chargeable unit possible with this system. You can also charge per download or per Kb etc -- basically anything that's measurable by a computer.

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:32 pm

Solutions like this give me the creeps, to be honest. A more decentralized Web-based approach would, I think, be more healthy in the long run.

Martinibianco · Post by **Martinibianco** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:52 pm

So you'd dismiss the idea off hand? Creeps or no creeps, Scott, it's arguably the closest the e-commerce world has come to a functioning micropayment system. It's up and running in Germany as I write this.

Max Leibman · Post by **Max Leibman** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:57 pm

Martinibianco wrote (in response to Scott):
<BLOCKQUOTE>So you'd dismiss the idea off hand? Creeps or no creeps, Scott, it's arguably the closest the e-commerce world has come to a functioning micropayment system. It's up and running in Germany as I write this.</BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I can kind of see where Scott's coming from -- this sort of technology needs to be accessible to anybody anywhere, without one single entity controlling all transactions. Especially an entity like the Phone Company, who already has more than too much power over telecommunications (even after the landmark anti-trust cases that broke it up in to the so-called "Baby Bells").

I would like to see this sort of system explored as another good in-between step as we wait for fully Internet-based micropayments, but I suppose there is the great risk that they catch on as-is and stay in the hands of the phone companies.

-Max "Paranoia" Leibman

Edited because Max is a moron -Max

[ This Message was edited by: Max Leibman on 2001-06-26 17:29 ]

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 3:06 pm

So you'd dismiss the idea off hand?

No, but apprehension is my first reaction, for the reasons Max mentioned. (better edit that post tho, Max, it wasn't "Nat")

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 5:34 pm

>They have to download this little app which >monitors which sites they're visiting.

boy, this is big-brother-creepy. micropayments are truly anonymous (just like this post, at least to everybody but the admin

please, don't make people believe that this is the way it should be. it should not. micropayments should work like buing a bubble gum at a bubble gum machine - easy, deliberate, anonymous.

cheers
p.

Martinibianco · Post by **Martinibianco** » Wed Jun 27, 2001 4:06 am

Again, agreed 100%. The only way I can think of to truly de-centralize the process is if a user paid me for my content by direct online bank transfer. If you're going to have a browser/web-based micropayment system, then surely it will be centralized by definition? There will have to be a "brand", there will have to be an "app", your online transactions can never be truly anonymous. IMHO, for a successful system to catch on, internet users will need an absolute focus, and this, to me, means a single product, a single brand, a single name.

Having now spent the past 24 hours reading the threads on this board and the literature outside the board, I feel that for the micropayment discussion to progress, the question should cease to be "Can we decentralize micropayments?" and become "Which centralized system can we trust?"

Let the flames commence!

Martin.

(P.S. I sell banner advertising on a big corporate website for a living so I have nothing to gain from promoting micropayments to begin with! I'm on your side, guys!!!)

[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:21 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Martinibianco on 2001-06-27 04:22 ]