MCCLOUD RESPONDS

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 5:03 pm

rstevens · Post by **rstevens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 6:05 pm

scott- i don't think you're ignoring us at all. i've been reading your books since '94 or so and always thought the broad strokes you worked in were a *strength*. you don't have to mention every damn strip just to make everybody's egos happy. just keep getting us media attention, please!

i'm pulling my planned strip for tonight and doing one as a counterpoint to the P-A. (as much as i usually agree with good ol' tycho)

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 6:38 pm

I'm not sure that I could have responded any better to such a rash of uninformed personal attacks. Thanks for keeping everything above-board and addressing Mr. Holkins' points one by one.

(Personally, I always thought that the actual "Self-proclaimed Lord of Comics" was John Byrne, but that's another discussion.)

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 6:51 pm

Cue entrance of John Byrne holding axe, saying "Oh yeah? Well let me tell you..." as the closing theme music swells.

ANNOUNCER: "Uh-Oh! He-e-e-e-re we go again!"

rstevens · Post by **rstevens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:03 pm

Guess i'm not cool for still liking Byrne and never getting into Sandman.

I'm gonna go re-read Orion #15 and sulk.

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:08 pm

Actually, for the record, the guy's never done a thing to me.

And I loved those first Byrne X-Men issues when I was in high school.

rstevens · Post by **rstevens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:19 pm

understood, just goofing around. i love this board, it's just a touch serious.

damonk13 · Post by **damonk13** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:25 pm

Fairly well put, Scott (I guess I didn't expect the few swear words, but you're human like all of us, so why should I be surprised at a little healthy venting?), and like rstevens says, I don't think that many of us feel we've been "ignored" by you or such...

I also wish to add that you have no obligation to any or all of us "webtoonists" and "webtheorists" beyond what you personally feel is a part of your envisioned ideal -- for all webtonnsts and theorists to help each other to improve the current prototypic online comic landscape, instead of kick and scream by their lonesomes...

You have a life, a family, bills, etc., like all of us. So no one should expect that you could somehow miraculously appear in some divine light with some heavenly choir soundtrack, in front of every one on the web, and offer to save them -- simultaneously, no less! -- with your ineffable powers of McCloud (why does this seem to wax allusive to old Superman comics?)...

...Unless, of course, you've been holding out on us and have these powers, in which case I'd ask you if you could pay off my current student loans, as well as end world hunger and let my Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup at least once in my lifetime...

Seriously, tho... noone can expect everyone to agree on all these ideas, and that's fine. But you did good to keep yourself from blowing up when others may have fallen to the goading barbs that were thrust at you in the recent weeks.

Though I may not have the brain power you need for this endeavour, I will still follow and listen eagerly, to see what new ideas and advances may come.

damonk13 · Post by **damonk13** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:27 pm

On 2001-06-25 18:51, Scott McCloud wrote:
Cue entrance of John Byrne holding axe, saying "Oh yeah? Well let me tell you..." as the closing theme music swells.

ANNOUNCER: "Uh-Oh! He-e-e-e-re we go again!"

Heehee!

Thas' funny...

Nice to see some levity here again!

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:29 pm

Oh, I'm a great John Byrne fan, too, and one of the few who doesn't seem to think he's "lost it" in recent years-- just boiled his style down to the raw essentials. But, as I said, that's another topic.

rstevens · Post by **rstevens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 10:12 pm

i hope this gets taken in the spirit of good, clean fun: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/

and that this gets taken in all seriousness: http://www.dumbrella.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000488.html

and now it's time for bed.

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 11:05 pm

Rock on, rstevens.

So, Scott-- What's the next "I Can't Stop Thinking" topic going to be?

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 11:15 pm

r --

Youz a gentleman and a scholar.

Thanks for the comments and for tonight's terrific strip.

Pixelatedly Yrs,

--Scott

Post by **Scott McCloud** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 11:16 pm

> So, Scott-- What's the next "I
> Can't Stop Thinking" topic going
> to be?

Something about gardening maybe.

Or fluffy kittycats and bunnies.

Post by **Greg Stephens** » Mon Jun 25, 2001 11:23 pm

There's always room for Jello!

glych · Post by **glych** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 2:37 am

Hi, Um...basically I'm an online artist too, and have posted here before....but this is in retailiation (*wince, i hate to use that word) to Scott McClouds recent topic on his site posted here: http://www.scottmccloud.com/home/xtra/backlash.html.

My *wince* retailiation is here:
http://glych.keenspace.com

Basically, i think that a large portion of online comics (keenspot/space) should have at least one representative. That's my only beef, and I think I back myself up well, and if not, ask any questions and I'll defend or retract my points on either the grounds of your logic, not on oyur names...am I alone here?

I mean..i know that you weren't ignoring us..i know that but...well...

Anyway, I hope you and I can have some one on one chat at con this year (if you're not hoarded by your over adoring fans

) to talk about some ideas I have on the subjects of comics and whatnot. Good Luck in life!

(P.S. the rant was written shortly after reading the topic, so i didn't have a cool off period)

-glych

damonk13 · Post by **damonk13** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 4:00 am

Heehee!

Nice strip, rs

damonk13 · Post by **damonk13** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 4:06 am

On 2001-06-25 23:23, Greg Stephens wrote:
There's always room for Jello!

http://www.polymer-city.com/archive/20010606.gif

Ah, puns.

Is there anything they can't do?

lylebclarke · Post by **lylebclarke** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 4:08 am

Sorry people. I'm getting off my high horse and the snarkiness is turned on. This is not directed at anyone in particular (but if you think I am talking about you that's fine by me as well.)

<snark>I don't envy Scott McCloudright now. Huge chunks of the communities are viewing him as a their own collectively owned, yet disobedient, resource.

"Do this for us Scott McCloud, say this for us Scott McCloud, mention us Scott McCloud. Give us your attention Scott McCloud, oh and when you have anyone elses attention, point that at us too Scott McCloud."

When, in actual fact, Scott McCloud is his own man, and not pushing the bandwagon of one particular camp or another.
</snark>

Personally, I think this is like gold mining, and we're lucky to have Scott McCloud stirring things up, even if we don't agree with him. Eventually, all the sand, grit and muck will be washed away, and the gold will be left sitting, as obvious as anything, on the bottom of the pan.

rstevens · Post by **rstevens** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:52 am

i'm no gentleman, i did that strip for purely selfish reasons. i just wanna make sure you don't quit doing ICST. tee hee.

my messageboard thread is getting a pretty good amount of very positive responses - even chris crosby joined in.

caseycamp8 · Post by **caseycamp8** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 8:22 am

What with all the Scott McCloud fuss nowadays I feel like I'm behind the group because I haven't read reinventing comics (and in the reinventing comics forum of all places). Hell, matter of fact, I just got a call saying Understanding Comics came in on my order so perhaps after a few weeks of reading I can comment on the recent events.

-casey
PS. rstevens: you really shoul give sandman a try.

[ This Message was edited by: caseycamp8 on 2001-06-26 08:25 ]

NatGertler · Post by **NatGertler** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 10:33 am

On one hand, Scott is being attacked for acting as if he's supposed to represent all online comics.

On the other hand, Scott is being attacked for acting as if he isn't representing all online comics.

There ain't no winning.

Were Scott's panel to be the first and last panel ever done about online comics, then there might be some need for it to be all-encompassing. Might.

But the truth is, it's not the only con panel ever on online comics. It's not even the only panel on online comics being done at this year's San Diego con. Scott has built a panel with a certain sensibility to it, and I expect it'll be an interesting one. If the Keenspot folks want a panel built more around their viewpoint, they should get their own panel...

...oh, that's right, they did.

rcar · Post by **rcar** » Tue Jun 26, 2001 11:20 am

Egads!!! What a fire storm. I think some people are combining the micropayments and the panel into the same argument. They are different topics.

What I don't understand is why online cartooninsts are against a microsystem payment. I want to stand up and cheer Scott on. I put a lot of time and effort into my comic. A little compensation woulndn't be a bad thing would it? On the other hand, are we making everyone adopt a micropayment system? No. If you don't want it, don't use it on your site, case closed. If you are happy putting up your site for free, no one is going to make you stop.

As for the panel, I can see were some of the bitterness comes from. I noticed Scott put together a panel of like sites. All of them are excellent sites, but are all infinit canvass. But Scott is the one putting it together, does have lmited time, and keenspot does have it's own panel with an added half an hour. Is anyone complaining about that?

Well, for good or bad, at least people are talking and web cartoons are getting a lot of notice. At least that's good.

[ This Message was edited by: rcar on 2001-06-26 11:21 ]

Kevin Pease · Post by **Kevin Pease** » Wed Jun 27, 2001 9:29 am

Hi. I finally got around to peeking into the forum, and this brouhaha caught my eye.

I think the kings of Keenspot have very little grounds to complain about being ignored by anyone. Badmouthing Scott McCloud is obviously an attention-getting device on the part of Crosby in the push to establish Keenspot as the monolithic alpha-to-omega of web comic strips. "How dare you fail to recognize us as the most important thing happening in the world of comics today!" If an online comic strip is not a Keenspot member, its very existence is in question, unless it's one of the big self-sufficient "Got-There-Firsts." So when Keenspot discovers that there's a theatre in which they aren't the center of attention, pardon me if I fail to be sympathetic when this upsets them.

I myself reacted to Scott's general disinterest in comic strips as a "small" form of the medium with "fewer challenges" before anyone else did; I introduced "Reiterating Comics" right here at Zwol because of it. But few people noticed, because I wasn't hurling insults or holding it against him at all. Caring about strips is not Scott's job, and I saw an opportunity to, in some small way, make it mine. I thought perhaps it could open a real dialogue that didn't have to be a war.

It often seems like the only way to get attention in this business is to be a cranky prima donna throwing stones at others, or to happen to be the be the target of said stones. Since the latter can be fleeting (an exception is McCloud's case, where his ideas are always challenging enough to consistently draw fire), it's often hard to resist the temptation to join in the backstabbing.