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Moderators: Scott McCloud, Moderators
I read a book the other day that had a character wearing what I initially thought was a Zot! t-shirt. On comparison, though, I found I was mistaken -- it's a different lightning bolt logo, probably The Flash. I was very disappointed.Scott McCloud wrote:I certainly wouldn't balk if another creator's character walked into a story holding a copy of Understanding Comics under their arm, or wearing a Zot! t-shirt.
I am not an expert, of course, but from my understanding, and what I've read, "Junk Bar" seems to be within the rights of Fair Use.Scott McCloud wrote:Any experts on these laws out there? I'd love to hear an opinion.
I'm no expert, but this seems pretty much identical to the Penny Arcade Strawberry Shortcake boondoggle, the upshot of which seemed to be, the fair use right to parody only extends as far as parodying the thing itself; using a trademark for other purposes is unlikely to be legit.Scott McCloud wrote:Though I realize that "fair use" -- the excerpting of ? works for transformative uses such as satire, collage, political statements or journalistic endevours -- has been degraded a bit over the years, I'm pretty sure it still covers what I'm doing in "Junk Bar."
Leaving the fact that "pretty much identical" is oxymoronic aside, I don't think this equates to that situation at all. Fair Use comes down to particulars of intent and interpretation. In trying to compose my reply I realize there are all sorts of semantic ways to look at this so that the P-A comic and Junk Bar can appear similar in nature but, really, who can possibly say that these situations are identical? The P-A comic was centered around the specific concept of the Strawberry Shortcake character as some sort of bondage dominatrix, including the name of the character to indicate that the comic was, indeed, about that character (alongside that of the other target, American McGee). Junk Bar is about some chocoholic guys discussing the state of modern culture while knocking back one packet of candy after another and the products are only seen, not mentioned. It's a question of a direct use of a trademark vs. an incidental one.buzzard wrote: I'm no expert, but this seems pretty much identical to the Penny Arcade Strawberry Shortcake boondoggle....
Greg replied:I also doubt they'd ever bother to send a cease-and-desist letter your way since what you're doing isn't as in-your-face as what Gabe and Tycho did.
Well, apparently we're in agreement on this side of things.but I think it's obvious why they became a target because of their comic, even if they were within their rights of Fair Use and satire. Junk Bar just isn't in the same category as far as the potential offensive effect of its respective trademark use.
Oh but it is very editorial, my friend. Frank even spells it out for us. "We had RESPECT for our corporate masters in those days! They served it. We ate it. No questions asked. Now these spoiled brats want 'irony' and 'variety' and 'subtext.' " Frank remembers a simpler time when cartoon fluff like Scooby Doo ruled the scene. Frank fears diversity. He fears substance.losttoy wrote:...However, Junk Bar is not an editorial to my knowledge. Of course, I have no idea what its purpose is at all. (Can anybody explain the comic to me, because I do not get it.)
It really depends on which panel he is in. Obviously the junk food is making his face all oozy.yuzaa wrote:So, is poll a bad idea to find out how people see Frank? We've got Nixon, Walter Matthau and Jack Webb at the moment. Did I miss someone? It's quite hard to choose from just these three, but.. has anyone got more ideas for Frank's brother/cousin/etc?
I would also like to thank Christopher for his cogent analysis of "Junk Bar." While I feel I already grasped much of Scott's intent, I didn't grasp as much as he did and I would have been hard pressed to express it as clearly.Christopher Lundgren wrote:Oh but it is very editorial, my friend.
You're right. Now that I take a closer look, Frank seems to be a man of a dozen faces, at least.. And then there were Colburn, Fred Flintstone and other fellas also mentioned. Poll for each panel.. many may like polls, but that'd be way too much.MSUSpar10 wrote:It really depends on which panel he is in. Obviously the junk food is making his face all oozy.yuzaa wrote:So, is poll a bad idea